From someone that's not in your field, enlighten me to as why 5 or 7 days makes sense?
Bozeman Area Round Table
- Thread starter Gerald Martin
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tjones
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With a tear in his eye Mac Minard says this is already happening. Testified to it and everything.
Gerald Martin
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Here’s an outline of some of the problems and possible solutions as I see them.
1. Working ranches/Ag and wildlife depredation conflict. Currently, shoulder seasons are not addressing this conflict adequately. In my opinion the late winter shoulder seasons actually exacerbate the problem as continual pressure on public land through the general season and extended pressure on accessible private land teaches surviving elk to find sanctuary on inaccessible private land.
FWP concentrates on unit wide reductions to meet “objectives”. The wrong elk are killed, survivors change their patterns and become habituated to sanctuary private land. The depredation on neighboring properties continues.
Public land and accessible private land elk populations suffer in both quality and quantity of available elk. Hunter satisfaction continues to decline even while “opportunity” increases.
There are several existing tools that can help alleviate landowner concerns, protect the resource and improve hunters’ experience, if they are implemented with several tweaks and the inclusion of some other changes.
The outline of my solution is as follows.
1. Raise the price of all elk tags $10 and all deer tags $5. Earmark the increased revenue for a game damage landowner compensation fund.
2. Tie eligibility for compensation to enrollment in Type 2 Block Management. Landowners still set the rules for access and amount of hunters they allow for safety and quality. All access to Type 2 Block Management is administered by FWP website. Reservations are booked online or by telephone in similar fashion as booking an VRBO or AirBNB. Hunters can view available dates and enter their information to reserve dates. Landowners can also view who is booked for their property and their information.
This would cut down on the amount of phone calls for landowners and would ensure a fair and even process for reservations.
Landowners could reserve dates for family and friends before hunters are allowed to reserve but would not be compensated for those dates. There would have to be a maximum percentage of days allowed to be blocked off to avoid abuse to the system. (Say like 15%)
3. Cut archery season by one or two weeks at the end of archery.
4. Cut rifle season by two weeks at the end and replace the last two weeks of general rifle with traditional black powder.
5. Hunters must choose a region for both deer and elk(can choose different regions for each) Hunters who draw a permit area are limited to hunting that specific hunt area only for that species.
6. End shoulder seasons and use game damage hunts to target specific localized wildlife populations with approval from area biologists.
7.Compensate landowners for game damage that can’t be effectively mitigated by the previous strategies.
Shortening seasons and alleviating constant pressure on public would allow elk to spend more time on public instead of inaccessible private.
1. Working ranches/Ag and wildlife depredation conflict. Currently, shoulder seasons are not addressing this conflict adequately. In my opinion the late winter shoulder seasons actually exacerbate the problem as continual pressure on public land through the general season and extended pressure on accessible private land teaches surviving elk to find sanctuary on inaccessible private land.
FWP concentrates on unit wide reductions to meet “objectives”. The wrong elk are killed, survivors change their patterns and become habituated to sanctuary private land. The depredation on neighboring properties continues.
Public land and accessible private land elk populations suffer in both quality and quantity of available elk. Hunter satisfaction continues to decline even while “opportunity” increases.
There are several existing tools that can help alleviate landowner concerns, protect the resource and improve hunters’ experience, if they are implemented with several tweaks and the inclusion of some other changes.
The outline of my solution is as follows.
1. Raise the price of all elk tags $10 and all deer tags $5. Earmark the increased revenue for a game damage landowner compensation fund.
2. Tie eligibility for compensation to enrollment in Type 2 Block Management. Landowners still set the rules for access and amount of hunters they allow for safety and quality. All access to Type 2 Block Management is administered by FWP website. Reservations are booked online or by telephone in similar fashion as booking an VRBO or AirBNB. Hunters can view available dates and enter their information to reserve dates. Landowners can also view who is booked for their property and their information.
This would cut down on the amount of phone calls for landowners and would ensure a fair and even process for reservations.
Landowners could reserve dates for family and friends before hunters are allowed to reserve but would not be compensated for those dates. There would have to be a maximum percentage of days allowed to be blocked off to avoid abuse to the system. (Say like 15%)
3. Cut archery season by one or two weeks at the end of archery.
4. Cut rifle season by two weeks at the end and replace the last two weeks of general rifle with traditional black powder.
5. Hunters must choose a region for both deer and elk(can choose different regions for each) Hunters who draw a permit area are limited to hunting that specific hunt area only for that species.
6. End shoulder seasons and use game damage hunts to target specific localized wildlife populations with approval from area biologists.
7.Compensate landowners for game damage that can’t be effectively mitigated by the previous strategies.
Shortening seasons and alleviating constant pressure on public would allow elk to spend more time on public instead of inaccessible private.
antlerradar
Well-known member
There might be a benefit to the public hunter if more pressure moves elk. The more pressure part is a very big IF though. The trend near me is ranches being leased by small groups of residents and not outfitters. One property near me has several hundred elk and only two people hunting it. That kind of pressure is going to do little to move elk. Do away with the 900-20 and go back to general archery or worse yet general rifle and private leasing will become a viable option for nonresidents. I could easily see a scenario were easy to get tags result in a very little increase in pressure on private and maybe even less.
mtnkid85
Well-known member
This would certainly address the hunting pressure, but I still feel like that is only half of the problem. Even with no hunting elk are naturally going to follow the best forage. Our migratory herds will still descend from higher elevations to lower elevations. Which means they will be going from mostly public to mostly private following the best feed as the snow piles up.
We need to also be concentrating on habitat by increasing productivity and quality of our public lands. As well as acquiring and preserving wintering grounds. This could come as timber thinning projects, weeding projects, juniper removal, conservation easements ect.
This will help keep elk on public land and naturally draw elk back to public when hunting pressure is reduced.
KB_
Well-known member
To be honest, I would almost cut the archery season at the beginning. That first week is nearly worthless for many people. Although I did get bugling action this weekend, couldn't believe it. I think the bigger problem is the long Rifle Season If it started in November instead of the middle of october that would help with reducing pressure during the tail end of the rut for elk as they are seemingly rutting later and later each year.
That is a really hard sell to most all hunters though if I'm being honest with myself.
Side note: I'm planning on attending that meeting tonight, If anyone is out of belgrade I would be happy to car pool otherwise ill see ya'll later.
KB_
Well-known member
I remember someone talking about this at our get together last week. Maybe that was you?
Within our group ill bet a few of us have ATVs and we could potentially work the soil in target areas and improve the habitat. Elk like good feed, Why not give them that good feed where they are not damaging private property. If this group gets off the ground I would certainly advocate that we physically do something in the surrounding areas to help promote better deer and elk habitat with better feed on public ground.
Sytes
Well-known member
TNC forestry techniques combined with TPL / RMEF land acquisitions would be an ideal model.
mtnkid85
Well-known member
Yep, I mentioned it at the meeting also. Spending money on habitat will benefit all of our species. It would have been nice to have seen that 1mil dollars for pheasant stocking go into habitat work instead.
Gerald Martin
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Why don’t we have FWP dart elk and stock them at fishing access sites….
(sarcasm font)I definitely agree that spending the money on habitat is a good idea.
Yep.
One other thing. Get a handle on what's going on in region 1 for both deer and elk. Region one hunters have flooded into place like SW ND the Breaks, which further clouds things on public land. Keep in mind I am not saying I blame the region 1 guys, I'm am just saying the lack of game in that area is concentrating pressure on other areas which degrades quality.
T
tjones
Guest
All the proposals I have seen show FWP has no interest in shortening seasons. They are adding.
KB_
Well-known member
That's insane
KB_
Well-known member
Ya'll, I am unable to go. Can we please update this or the other thread with what you all see? Maybe we can have a follow up on the 1st of October
El Jason
Well-known member
Damned right.
Schaaf
Well-known member
Let us know how the Open House goes
antlerradar
Well-known member
I can not speak for the habitat in western Montana, but in SE Montana it is not the problem. Two thirds of the Custer has burned in the past 25 years. Even with the past two years being the driest consecutive years on record there is still plenty of food for a deer.
I was at my go to spot in the 90's this last week. Spotted at least one 180 class buck from that spot every year in the 90's and even on a poor morning you would see at least 10 bucks. This year I was good for two does and two 2 year old three points. The food looked great, Sumac everywhere, the draws full of snowberrys, winterfat up to my knees and rabbit brush nearly as tall me. Habitat is not the issue in SE Montana.
I was at my go to spot in the 90's this last week. Spotted at least one 180 class buck from that spot every year in the 90's and even on a poor morning you would see at least 10 bucks. This year I was good for two does and two 2 year old three points. The food looked great, Sumac everywhere, the draws full of snowberrys, winterfat up to my knees and rabbit brush nearly as tall me. Habitat is not the issue in SE Montana.
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