Bozeman Area Round Table

[Gerald Martin]

I did a quick check of the 2008 counts and the 2020 counts. Both counts listed 136,000 elk counted. Yet, we have WAY TOO many elk and numbers are growing out of hand according to legislators and FWP management. ?????

 

[Gerald Martin]

When you lay the 2020 elk counts and the population objectives side by side and start looking at the numbers some amazing things pop out.

Did you know that the entire Region 7 has a total elk objective of 700-800 elk? That is for every hunt area begining with the letter 7.
Did you know that the entire Region 7 has a total population of 3,300 elk. It's color coded a shocking bright red to signify that those areas over objective by more than 200% over objective.

Did you know that Unit 393 right outside Bozeman in the Bridgers has nearly as many counted elk as the entire Region 7 with 3,038 elk? One hunt area with the same number as an entire region. Unit 393 has and objective number that is twice the amount as the entire Region 7 with 1,500 elk being the objective. How is it that one unit is managed for twice as many elk as an entire Region?

 

[timmy]

When you lay the 2020 elk counts and the population objectives side by side and start looking at the numbers some amazing things pop out.

Did you know that the entire Region 7 has a total elk objective of 700-800 elk? That is for every hunt area begining with the letter 7.
Did you know that the entire Region 7 has a total population of 3,300 elk. It's color coded a shocking bright red to signify that those areas over objective by more than 200% over objective.

Did you know that Unit 393 right outside Bozeman in the Bridgers has nearly as many counted elk as the entire Region 7 with 3,038 elk? One hunt area with the same number as an entire region. Unit 393 has and objective number that is twice the amount as the entire Region 7 with 1,500 elk being the objective. How is it that one unit is managed for twice as many elk as an entire Region?

How is the elk objective for the entire region 7 700-800? Objective is a made up number by fwp.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Why is it that this year we are going to have a late season shoulder hunt on public land in Unit 314? This area in 2008 had 6,078 elk living in it and in 2020 has 3700 elk living in it with a population objective of 3000 but an allowable range of 3600. The unit is 100 elk over the allowable objective range, yet we are going to shoot elk until Feb 15 because a rancher has had 300 head of elk in his irrigated hay fields and is complaining. !!!!!

 

[Gerald Martin]

Can anyone find and link the current snowmobile restricted areas for the Gallatin National Forest in 314? I know the regs for region 1 where I spent most of the last 19 years but I am unfamiliar with the travel plans in the Gallatin.
Is it like most of region 1 that allows snowmobiles behind gated roads and off trail travel in most places after Dec 1?

Not that I want to publicize it, but expect to see a bunch of muzzle loader bulls on social media. You won't see it in the pics but folks will be riding the high country until they find a late season bull that thought he made it through another year. Just wait until we get another winter like 10/11 and all the Bozeman Bro's are cruising the mountains with their newfound love of traditional black powder hunting.

Oh, and if I can't shoot a big bull during the two week late season black powder hunt, at least I can take my rifle down to 314 and whack a cow elk like everyone else who just moved to town and can't wait to fill the freezer with that good organic wild meat. It's going to be great covering 40-50 miles on a sled instead of slogging a couple miles through the snow.

 

[MTLabrador]

Can anyone find and link the current snowmobile restricted areas for the Gallatin National Forest in 314? I know the regs for region 1 where I spent most of the last 19 years but I am unfamiliar with the travel plans in the Gallatin.
Is it like most of region 1 that allows snowmobiles behind gated roads and off trail travel in most places after Dec 1?

Not that I want to publicize it, but expect to see a bunch of muzzle loader bulls on social media. You won't see it in the pics but folks will be riding the high country until they find a late season bull that thought he made it through another year. Just wait until we get another winter like 10/11 and all the Bozeman Bro's are cruising the mountains with their newfound love of traditional black powder hunting.

Oh, and if I can't shoot a big bull during the two week late season black powder hunt, at least I can take my rifle down to 314 and whack a cow elk like everyone else who just moved to town and can't wait to fill the freezer with that good organic wild meat. It's going to be great covering 40-50 miles on a sled instead of slogging a couple miles through the snow.

Custer Gallatin National Forest - Maps & Publications

Custer Gallatin National Forest - Maps & Publications

www.fs.usda.gov

 

[Gerald Martin]

Imagine that! Some foreward thinking folks have placed some pretty good winter travel restrictions across a lot of the Gallatin USFS. That's a good thing! Maybe my nightmare scenario won't be total reality in this area. That doesn't mean it won't happen elsewhere.

 

[tjones]

Objective is a made up number by fwp.

With heavy influence from landowners.

 

[antlerradar]

Imagine that! Some foreward thinking folks have placed some pretty good winter travel restrictions across a lot of the Gallatin USFS. That's a good thing! Maybe my nightmare scenario won't be total reality in this area. That doesn't mean it won't happen elsewhere.

Still golden in Ashland though. I am going to have time to kill in Miles City, plenty of time to look into putting tacks on the ranger.

 

[timmy]

With heavy influence from landowners.

At the end of the day fwp still set them. Landowner tags are going to happen just need to minimize the damage and keep public land hunting sustainable which will lead to cuts in opportunities for the average hunter. Less opportunity isn’t necessarily a bad thing if it leads to increased opportunity of success. What is happening in Montana isn’t sustainable for public lands and that’s a hard pill to swallow for most.

 

[tjones]

At the end of the day fwp still set them. Landowner tags are going to happen just need to minimize the damage and keep public land hunting sustainable which will lead to cuts in opportunities for the average hunter. Less opportunity isn’t necessarily a bad thing if it leads to increased opportunity of success. What is happening in Montana isn’t sustainable for public lands and that’s a hard pill to swallow for most.

I have sat on a few objective setting meetings. Landowners drive the final number with FWP eagerly adopting.
Landowners driving objective is a separate issue from landowners tags.

 

[timmy]

I have sat on a few objective setting meetings. Landowners drive the final number with FWP eagerly adopting.
Landowners driving objective is a separate issue from landowners tags.

Fwp policy is landowner tolerance, maybe that should be visited.

 

[antlerradar]

At the end of the day fwp still set them. Landowner tags are going to happen just need to minimize the damage and keep public land hunting sustainable which will lead to cuts in opportunities for the average hunter. Less opportunity isn’t necessarily a bad thing if it leads to increased opportunity of success. What is happening in Montana isn’t sustainable for public lands and that’s a hard pill to swallow for most.

We could go with landowner tags, good for five point or less bulls and cows. Landowners get to shoot some of those pesky elk and maybe push some of the bigger elk onto the public. Sounds like a win win to me.

 

[MTLabrador]

Imagine that! Some foreward thinking folks have placed some pretty good winter travel restrictions across a lot of the Gallatin USFS. That's a good thing! Maybe my nightmare scenario won't be total reality in this area. That doesn't mean it won't happen elsewhere.

I think the more open snowmobile use on the west side of the Gallatin Range could be really bad for bulls. With good snow, bulls that hang out up high will get whacked by people who would otherwise never make the 8 mile, 3500 foot hike to get to them. You would think we would have learned from the season extensions that happened before in the Gallatin and Madison. Lots of bulls died.

Hopefully most cows in 314 hit the valley floor in a hurry before the firing squad gets after them.

 

[tjones]

Fwp policy is landowner tolerance, maybe that should be visited.

That needs to happen and
Hank say biology first. We all know that’s BS.

 

[timmy]

We could go with landowner tags, good for five point or less bulls and cows. Landowners get to shoot some of those pesky elk and maybe push some of the bigger elk onto the public. Sounds like a win win to me.

Give them the tags with mandatory reporting on the elk that got killed. Could really help them out for damage to their land.

 

[timmy]

Give them the tags for deer too does or two point or less. Stop the game damage that is hurting them so bad.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Give them the tags with mandatory reporting on the elk that got killed. Could really help them out for damage to their land.

No.

Raise the price of elk tags $10 and deer tags $5. Place the extra money into a fund to compensate landowners for wildlife damages.

Tie eligibility to receive compensation to being enrolled into Type 2 Block Management. Landowners set the rules for their land just like now. FWP manages reservations on all Type 2 Block properties via a website that allows hunters to reserve available dates and lists each properties rules. (Similar to VRBO and AirBnB websites). Landowners can block out a percentage of dates for family and friends at the time of listing but will not be compensated for those user days.

Shoulder seasons are eliminated. Game damage hunts are reinstated on specific properties enrolled in the programs with the approval of area biologists. Enrolled hunters pre-book the dates they are available if a damage hunt is scheduled. Damage hunts are specific and targeted to individual local herds rather than unit populations.

Mandatory reporting of harvest.

A program like this could provide a positive incentive in the form of block management payments and also help with wildlife damage for those landowners who can’t find relief because of close proximity to sanctuary areas.

Those landowners who wish to lease to outfitters or don’t want to allow hunting for whatever reason they choose may still do whatever they choose. They will not be eligible to receive compensation because they have already benefited from the public’s wildlife.

 

[timmy]

Landowner tags are going to happen just need to minimize the damage. The sooner people realize they will never get to hunt private the better. Public hunters are nothing but a nuisance to private land. It’s not going to work out how you think.

 

[timmy]

Landowners are more likely to put up with game damage than hunters. Give them the tags for eliminating animals nobody would pay for.