Bombproof Shell Jacket?

[Deleted member 16014]

Throw into the mix drysuits, what the heck is a kokatat made out of? Definitely isn’t as much of a trash bag as a PVC jacket and they are 100% waterproof.

Isn't it kinda the same thing, but with extremely burly face fabric? Since weight is mostly a non-factor, I would bet the face fabric weave is tight enough that it provides some mechanical repellency.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@neffa3

Immersion Research Men's Devil's Club Dry Suit​

240 face fabric lol just go full send

 

[GrantK]

A buddy has the Alpha SV, bought it 10 yrs ago, still swears it would stop an IED, but also laments it leaks through the shoulders where his pack wears on it.

Ever try any of the euro brands? NOrrona, millet, mammut, etc

I don't really have a rain shell (other than a set of ultralight kuiu) and lamented it in WY for two days. Thinking about backpacking the coast (OP) next year, La Push to Shi Shi, gonna need a good set for that.

I've had a couple of Mammut shells, old enough that one of them was E-vent, which I probably prefer to Gore-Pro, overall durability sucked for a high-dollar jacket though, similar luck with Rab, I really, really wanted Neoshell to be as awesome as it was promoted to be, unfortunately in jacket form it sucked, pants were awesome for some reason? probably different face fabric made the difference... I'll side with everyone here that the most bomber jacket I've ever owned is the Arc Beta SV, it's pretty heavy for a backpacking jacket though?

The second place oddly goes to an original Sitka coldfront, I think the thing that keeps that one dry is the fact it has a fleece liner? good luck finding one now but it's still the jacket I reach for more often than not if the weather is really nasty...

 

[Oak]

Like @SnowyMountaineer eluded to, you just have to accept the fact that you're going to be a little wet and uncomfortable from time to time if you spend a lot of time in the rain. Gore-Tex doesn't dry out that well when its 99% humidity in a tent, BTW. Guys these days are so afraid of being uncomfortable, that they will spend $1000s on a clothing system. A buddy here in AK about died of hypothermia last year in his Sitka rain gear, with rain driving it through the material, soaked him to the bone... I know they're tested for driving rain. He threw it in the trash and packed his HH the next hunt.

I love hunting in the L48, where you can dry out your gear much easier due to the dry environment. Dry boots are much more common as well, and in general minimal raingear can get you through most hunts. I can count on one hand the number of trips I've done in AK with dry feet. My last 3 sheep hunts it rained for 7 of the 10 days we hunted, and not just sprinkled. My rain coat never dried out. Gore-Tex = fancy word for saturated.

The whole breathable raingear thing is a gimmick, IMO and longevity of the system working is 100% dependent on the DWR or breathable layer functioning. I can't say that the lightweight gear has been any better or worse than the heavier material 3 layer systems as far as longevity or keeping you dry. Gore-Tex is 100% guaranteed to fail if you use it for an entire day in the rain, pack or not. The shell will wet out eventually. None have lasted more than 2 year of use, and re-wash in DWR is never as good as factory applied. YMMV. I look at raingear as throw away gear, I get a new coat/pants about every year and just rotate it into the line-up. Hunting gear gets downgraded to fishing/hiking, which gets downgraded to boat fishing and fish cleaning. I have a set of HH that has been around for 14 seasons, it has hole cut in it from fleshing hides, and various other tasks, but it still keeps me dry. None of the gimmick breathable will keep me dry in the back yard tossing the ball for the dogs after 3-4 years.

What I can't figure out is how breathable waders don't soak through. I can stand in water for hours and have dry legs/feet at the end of the day. is it the way they breath, as in the airflow out the top, and what we're actually seeing with failed rain jackets is just perspiration?

Agree with so much of this. When I went sheep hunting in AK I took Marmot Precip rain gear. Not fancy or expensive. It worked “good enough” for 14 days. I took it back to AK the next year for a goat hunt and the outfitter made me go to town and buy HH PVC. I don’t think I was any less wet (sweat) and was certainly less comfortable. Just embrace the suck.

 

[Irrelevant]

I've had a couple of Mammut shells, old enough that one of them was E-vent, which I probably prefer to Gore-Pro, overall durability sucked for a high-dollar jacket though, similar luck with Rab, I really, really wanted Neoshell to be as awesome as it was promoted to be, unfortunately in jacket form it sucked, pants were awesome for some reason? probably different face fabric made the difference... I'll side with everyone here that the most bomber jacket I've ever owned is the Arc Beta SV, it's pretty heavy for a backpacking jacket though?

The second place oddly goes to an original Sitka coldfront, I think the thing that keeps that one dry is the fact it has a fleece liner? good luck finding one now but it's still the jacket I reach for more often than not if the weather is really nasty...

I have two friends with old hunting jackets with goretex, both swear by how great they are, both have a fleece interior and very minor exterior facing...

Agree with so much of this. When I went sheep hunting in AK I took Marmot Precip rain gear. Not fancy or expensive. It worked “good enough” for 14 days. I took it back to AK the next year for a goat hunt and the outfitter made me go to town and buy HH PVC. I don’t think I was any less wet (sweat) and was certainly less comfortable. Just embrace the suck.

View attachment 242864

No, but if that's the level of comfort we're striving for then frog toggs it is. Or plastic rain poncho

 

[hank4elk]

A poncho over everything is the only thing I have found and you still get wet in real weather.
I have a 30 yr old goretex waterfowl parka and I have not been soaked in it.
HH in BC was good until you move and then you get soaked inside.
It's wearing a pack with a load where you get wet and that's life.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have two friends with old hunting jackets with goretex, both swear by how great they are, both have a fleece interior and very minor exterior facing...

No, but if that's the level of comfort we're striving for then frog toggs it is. Or plastic rain poncho

Speculation here.

I think there is likely some wicking that occurs that confuses people, sleeves/collars. A semi-dry kayak top solves those issues. Probably also isn't all that fun to hike in. I roll up my sleeves to at least mid-fore arm when I'm wear a rain jacket and that seems to help a lot. Also I have a Sitka wading jacket that has gaskets on the sleeves. That jacket is awesome as well, would get more general use but it's meant to be worn with waders so it's too short on the torso for hiking.


Second I wonder if jackets with fleece backers are actually absorbing some condensation and therefore creating the perception that you are dryer?

Third perhaps the backer is creating some deadspace/cushion between your midlayer and the membrane so that water can't be as easily pressed through the fabric.

Aside... drysuits/paddling in the rain is amazing and a great perspective shifter about rain. In much the same way being in a snow storm elk hunting is a bit intimidating, but then if your skiing a resort with the right clothes suddenly a storm is super fun, paddling with a drysuit is a blast. Each time I've been to AK we had some crappy rain days and instead of sitting around bemoaning it we went paddling. My drysuit is definitely going in my bag on every AK trip and if we get a bunch of no fly days I'm going to be making hay. Also has made me realize I'm leaving a lot of paddling on the table in the west and east coast. Apparently us CO folks are real babies when it comes to cold water.

 

[Irrelevant]

Speculation here.

I think there is likely some wicking that occurs that confuses people, sleeves/collars. A semi-dry kayak top solves those issues. Probably also isn't all that fun to hike in. I roll up my sleeves to at least mid-fore arm when I'm wear a rain jacket and that seems to help a lot. Also I have a Sitka wading jacket that has gaskets on the sleeves. That jacket is awesome as well, would get more general use but it's meant to be worn with waders so it's too short on the torso for hiking.
View attachment 242920

Second I wonder if jackets with fleece backers are actually absorbing some condensation and therefore creating the perception that you are dryer?

Third perhaps the backer is creating some deadspace/cushion between your midlayer and the membrane so that water can't be as easily pressed through the fabric.

Aside... drysuits/paddling in the rain is amazing and a great perspective shifter about rain. In much the same way being in a snow storm elk hunting is a bit intimidating, but then if your skiing a resort with the right clothes suddenly a storm is super fun, paddling with a drysuit is a blast. Each time I've been to AK we had some crappy rain days and instead of sitting around bemoaning it we went paddling. My drysuit is definitely going in my bag on every AK trip and if we get a bunch of no fly days I'm going to be making hay. Also has made me realize I'm leaving a lot of paddling on the table in the west and east coast. Apparently us CO folks are real babies when it comes to cold water.

I have had similar speculations on the fleece components to rain gear. Just creating a minor buffer both directions may have a significant benefit.

Splash jackets are great, but I still always get wet, and have never used a dry suit and have heard mostly negatives about them, but I also think that most people who paddle enough to potentially justify one are also warm blooded, cold blooded lizards like myself froze their asses off and took up a different hobby. When we raft in the spring, I'll routinely wear a splash jacket over my wetsuit to keep warm, even on 90+ deg days when everyone else is sweating.

 

[brymoore]

I wear a Swazi jacket made in New Zealand. It’s made to survive NZ’s wet weather.

I’m dry in it but I live in Idaho. I don’t consider Idaho a place to bombproof test wet gear. You’d have to accept the NZ advertising.

 

[Irrelevant]

I wear a Swazi jacket made in New Zealand. It’s made to survive NZ’s wet weather.

I’m dry in it but I live in Idaho. I don’t consider Idaho a place to bombproof test wet gear. You’d have to accept the NZ advertising.

interesting...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have had similar speculations on the fleece components to rain gear. Just creating a minor buffer both directions may have a significant benefit.

Splash jackets are great, but I still always get wet, and have never used a dry suit and have heard mostly negatives about them, but I also think that most people who paddle enough to potentially justify one are also warm blooded, cold blooded lizards like myself froze their asses off and took up a different hobby. When we raft in the spring, I'll routinely wear a splash jacket over my wetsuit to keep warm, even on 90+ deg days when everyone else is sweating.

Neoprene drysuits in my experience. But I wear a puffy under my IR and have been toasty even when swimming in late September in Anchorage.

You definitely get condensation though so synthetic layers are preferable.

 

[brymoore]

interesting...
View attachment 242940

I have the Rifleman

 

[Potsie]

I was just looking at the Born Primitive stuff. It’s E-Vent instead of GoreTex, and designed by Aron Snyder from Kifaru.

May be good stuff, may be crap. No idea, but may be worth taking a look at.

 

[Irrelevant]

designed by Aron Snyder from Kifaru.

It could be gold plated and come with a sherpa to carry my gear and an umbrella but with ^ being the case I'll pass.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It could be gold plated and come with a sherpa to carry my gear and an umbrella but with ^ being the case I'll pass.

I still can’t get over the fact they put Cordura on a puffy

Finally saw one in the flesh at Barney’s, good luck stuffing that thing in a pack holy moly.

 

[Sytes]

If I wanted to work/hike/hunt all week/s in a constant rain, what jacket would I buy?

*Must still be breathable (not PVC, neoprene, etc)
*Must be very durable
*Come with a lifetime or similar warranty against defects
*Doesn't have to be lightweight, but that's still a plus.

Tyvek jacket... I have an ultra lightweight Tyvek shell of a jacket.... Frog something or other. Cheap and perfect for my boat.

 

[Irrelevant]

Tyvek jacket... I have an ultra lightweight Tyvek shell of a jacket.... Frog something or other. Cheap and perfect for my boat.

Interesting

 

[peterk1234]

I was just looking at the Born Primitive stuff. It’s E-Vent instead of GoreTex, and designed by Aron Snyder from Kifaru.

May be good stuff, may be crap. No idea, but may be worth taking a look at.

E-vent is good but it's not gortex. I used it for skiing. It will soak through. I found e-vent too breathable, so to speak.

 

[brymoore]

Interesting

Frogg Toggs. I own a set. Waterproof, definitely not bomb proof.

 

[Sytes]

"Made with frogg toggs’ breathable, non-woven fabric, this men’s rain suit is waterproof, wind-resistant, breathable, and extremely lightweight and packable."

It was a quick buy when I needed something while out boating... Some inexpensive $50 type wind breaker/waterproof/breathable purchase.
I began wearing it beyond the boat weekend and it's simply one of those random, "hey, this breaths, blocks wind, and rain and super light/comfy!"

Take it for what you will though @brymoore may have used it more frequently based on his not bombproof comment.