Don't be a Bob, no problem.... Trusting a Bob can get good police in the situation like in the other video where BOB was tased, broke free, and and dove into his car and pulled a gun and shot 2 cops. I do not feel sorry for Bob, Bob chose his own path many times in the last few years. I have 2 nephews who are Milwaukee police and my best friend is a Brookfield Officer. I will always put their lives above someone who acts like Bob in the given situation.Bob has a checkered past. Bob had resisted officers and gotten away. Bob is trying to get into a vehicle. Therefore I can shoot him 7 times in the back.
Logic is currently inconclusive how this is acceptable.
Blue Lives Matter
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Justabirdwatcher
Well-known member
Yea, none of us have ever made a series of (multiple?) foolish choices, ever. I'm sure all of us who have, are lucky to be alive today.
El Jason
Well-known member
Past decisions, criminal histories, law enforcement interactions, etc. certainly are and should be factored into decisions to use force. It would be foolish not to.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Bullshit. Bob was reaching into the vehicle for a weapon. Obey a lawful order. Do not tell the officer that you have a weapon in the vehicle and then reach for it.
Justifiable shooting and a dumb ass criminal.
I am not calling bullshit on a poster but the situation.
Justifiable shooting and a dumb ass criminal.
I am not calling bullshit on a poster but the situation.
Marshian
Well-known member
I beg you to make a poll on here asking who has punched or fought a cop. I’ve made dumb choices in my youth. 99% of them were when I was younger than 25. This guy is almost 30. There are levels of dumb. Fighting cops is near the top. Reasonable people know that it’s a good way to win a Darwin Award.
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3855WIN
Well-known member
When you’re 29 years old, and have six kids to support, foolish choices need to end.
I have been biting my tongue and trying not to join this thread. I'll make just three comments : 1) Some of you need to do a few "ride alongs" with LE on Friday and Saturday nights. See what it's like in the real world of split second decision making in fast escalating and violent situations. 2) I don't need folks in other professions telling me what I need for training, any more than I should be telling a contractor, car salesman, or engineer what they need for training. 3) Watching clips of events, doctored by the wonderful media, absolutely does not give you all the information regarding the on scene situation.
L
longbow51
Guest
Didn't Chris Rock cover this in a skit many years ago? Won't post it as humor doesn't seem to go well here with some and I don't want to offend. I know it was comedy and this is serious, but sound advice nonetheless.
seeth07
Well-known member
Yup, protesting his death got something accomplished...more dead...
I for one hope this thread does not get shut down; there has been a lot of thoughtful discourse with opposing points of view....and, its has remained civil! Problems don't get solved by shallow thinking and emotional reaction.
Wow, a contemporary 56 page look at just the issue being discussed here. A big thanks to asdew1880.
The Conclusion: (can't explain the misspelling resulting from the (copy/paste). Bold is my doing.
VII. Conclusion The issue of police violence and its racial incidence has become one of the most divisive topics in American discourse. Emotions run the gamut from outrage to indi↵erence. Yet, very little data exists to understand whether racial disparities in police use of force exist or might be explained by situational factors inherent in the complexity of police-civilian interactions. Beyond the lack of data, the analysis of police behavior is fraught with diculty including, but not limited to, the reliability of the data that does exist and the fact that one cannot randomly assign race. With these caveats in mind, this paper takes first steps into the treacherous terrain of understanding the nature and extent of racial di↵erences in police use of force and the probability of police interaction. On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial di↵erences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically but the racial di↵erence remains roughly constant. Even when ocers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.2 percent more likely to endure some form of force in an interaction. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – ocer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial di↵erences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. We argue that these facts are most consistent with a model of taste-based discrimination in which police ocers face discretely higher costs for ocer-involved shootings relative to non-lethal uses of force. This model is consistent with racial di↵erences in the average returns to compliant behaviors, the results of our tests of discrimination based on Knowles, Persico, and Todd (2001) and Anwar and Fang (2006), and the fact that the odds-ratio is large and significant across all intensities of force – even after accounting for a rich set of controls. In the end, however, without randomly assigning race, we have no definitive proof of discrimination. Our results are also consistent with mismeasured contextual factors. As police departments across America consider models of community policing such as the Boston Ten Point Coalition, body worn cameras, or training designed to purge ocers of implicit bias, our results point to another simple policy experiment: increase the expected price of excessive force 39 on lower level uses of force. To date, very few police departments across the country either collect data on lower level uses of force or explicitly punish ocers for misuse of these tactics. The appealing feature of this type of policy experiment is that it does not require ocers to change their behavior in extremely high-stakes environments. Many arguments about police reform fall victim to the “my life versus theirs, us versus them” mantra. Holding ocers accountable for the misuse of hands or pushing individuals to the ground is not likely a life or death situation and, as such, may be more amenable to policy change. **** The importance of our results for racial inequality in America is unclear. It is plausible that racial di↵erences in lower level uses of force are simply a distraction and movements such as Black Lives Matter should seek solutions within their own communities rather than changing the behaviors of police and other external forces. Much more troubling, due to their frequency and potential impact on minority belief formation, is the possibility that racial di↵erences in police use of non-lethal force has spillovers on myriad dimensions of racial inequality. If, for instance, blacks use their lived experience with police as evidence that the world is discriminatory, then it is easy to understand why black youth invest less in human capital or black adults are more likely to believe discrimination is an important determinant of economic outcomes. Black Dignity Matters.
As has been said before - let's argue the facts.
For anyone interested in learning, answering questions and dipping their toes in the academic world
I can post more if anyone wants.
Wow, a contemporary 56 page look at just the issue being discussed here. A big thanks to asdew1880.
The Conclusion: (can't explain the misspelling resulting from the (copy/paste). Bold is my doing.
VII. Conclusion The issue of police violence and its racial incidence has become one of the most divisive topics in American discourse. Emotions run the gamut from outrage to indi↵erence. Yet, very little data exists to understand whether racial disparities in police use of force exist or might be explained by situational factors inherent in the complexity of police-civilian interactions. Beyond the lack of data, the analysis of police behavior is fraught with diculty including, but not limited to, the reliability of the data that does exist and the fact that one cannot randomly assign race. With these caveats in mind, this paper takes first steps into the treacherous terrain of understanding the nature and extent of racial di↵erences in police use of force and the probability of police interaction. On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial di↵erences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically but the racial di↵erence remains roughly constant. Even when ocers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.2 percent more likely to endure some form of force in an interaction. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – ocer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial di↵erences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. We argue that these facts are most consistent with a model of taste-based discrimination in which police ocers face discretely higher costs for ocer-involved shootings relative to non-lethal uses of force. This model is consistent with racial di↵erences in the average returns to compliant behaviors, the results of our tests of discrimination based on Knowles, Persico, and Todd (2001) and Anwar and Fang (2006), and the fact that the odds-ratio is large and significant across all intensities of force – even after accounting for a rich set of controls. In the end, however, without randomly assigning race, we have no definitive proof of discrimination. Our results are also consistent with mismeasured contextual factors. As police departments across America consider models of community policing such as the Boston Ten Point Coalition, body worn cameras, or training designed to purge ocers of implicit bias, our results point to another simple policy experiment: increase the expected price of excessive force 39 on lower level uses of force. To date, very few police departments across the country either collect data on lower level uses of force or explicitly punish ocers for misuse of these tactics. The appealing feature of this type of policy experiment is that it does not require ocers to change their behavior in extremely high-stakes environments. Many arguments about police reform fall victim to the “my life versus theirs, us versus them” mantra. Holding ocers accountable for the misuse of hands or pushing individuals to the ground is not likely a life or death situation and, as such, may be more amenable to policy change. **** The importance of our results for racial inequality in America is unclear. It is plausible that racial di↵erences in lower level uses of force are simply a distraction and movements such as Black Lives Matter should seek solutions within their own communities rather than changing the behaviors of police and other external forces. Much more troubling, due to their frequency and potential impact on minority belief formation, is the possibility that racial di↵erences in police use of non-lethal force has spillovers on myriad dimensions of racial inequality. If, for instance, blacks use their lived experience with police as evidence that the world is discriminatory, then it is easy to understand why black youth invest less in human capital or black adults are more likely to believe discrimination is an important determinant of economic outcomes. Black Dignity Matters.
As has been said before - let's argue the facts.
OOPs there it is! Don't have time right now to dig into this, perhaps someone here? The Law of Unintended Consequences.
In all the blathering bullshit that was thrown out at the DNC this subject never came up. Wonder why? They are not looking for solutions....just planks.
Panda Bear
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A couple fellows questioned my knowledge of what is going on in Wis., and the short answer is nothing.
however; I do have some knowledge and experience of systemic racism and sexism
They are both alive and well in Canada. Indigenous women and girls have been sexually assaulted while in custody and some have gone missing and later found dead. And this is not something new nor are we ignoring it. And we feel that we are making some progress in improving this situation.
However; We see no benefit in burning down our neighbors business and/or hurting more people. In many ways doing so would just strengthen the cases of those who say "see they are just a bunch of animals, that can not be reasoned with, all they know and understand is violence"
I experienced racism and sexism first hand from both men and women while in college, but I refuse to be a victim or to have a "poor me" attitude. I will continue to fight for a better tomorrow but I will not burn down my neighbors business, just because he/she is a different color than I am, or because he/she had better opportunities available as a child.
Plus, in all honesty, most of the time, those who are arrested, deserved to be arrested. I have watched situations get out of hand and marveled at officers restraint, knowing that he knew, he could be shot at any moment.
Slam and adew1880. interesting, I will read it when time permits, thank you.
And thank you gentlemen for allowing me to post my thoughts and experiences on a thread that is about racism in the U.S.
however; I do have some knowledge and experience of systemic racism and sexism
They are both alive and well in Canada. Indigenous women and girls have been sexually assaulted while in custody and some have gone missing and later found dead. And this is not something new nor are we ignoring it. And we feel that we are making some progress in improving this situation.
However; We see no benefit in burning down our neighbors business and/or hurting more people. In many ways doing so would just strengthen the cases of those who say "see they are just a bunch of animals, that can not be reasoned with, all they know and understand is violence"
I experienced racism and sexism first hand from both men and women while in college, but I refuse to be a victim or to have a "poor me" attitude. I will continue to fight for a better tomorrow but I will not burn down my neighbors business, just because he/she is a different color than I am, or because he/she had better opportunities available as a child.
Plus, in all honesty, most of the time, those who are arrested, deserved to be arrested. I have watched situations get out of hand and marveled at officers restraint, knowing that he knew, he could be shot at any moment.
Slam and adew1880. interesting, I will read it when time permits, thank you.
And thank you gentlemen for allowing me to post my thoughts and experiences on a thread that is about racism in the U.S.
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Justabirdwatcher
Well-known member
I can't disagree with that. I'm just not going to stand here and throw stones because Lord knows I did some stupid sht growing up, and even a few things since. And I know a lot of guys who only got out of jail time because they knew the officers or the officers knew them or their family. Seriously.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
What a dork!
disrn.com
Not the Bee | What a time to be alive
Not the Bee is your source for headlines that should be satire, but aren't.
disrn.com
My last post on this. The irony is while the looter/arsonists lay dead or dying in the street the companions all have phones out yelling call the police. That is actually on video.. This sums up who these idiots are. I guess things are a little more real when it's not the video game being played in mommas house. Harsh reality check
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Scott85
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Spilt second decision can lead to perceived mistakes or what could be considered excessive by some. It a shame that police officers are tried in the court of public opinion and the general public has never had to make a split second decision that could cost someone their life. Luckily the Supreme Court has ruled in Graham vs O'Connor that the officer cannot be tried to hindsight but only by the circumstances known at the time. I posted on a facebook post yesterday about where people were talking bad about police officers and told them to put their money where their mouth is and become a police officer to be that example of what a police officer should be.
D
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Scott85
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Out of all of the above how many complied with police and how many resisted either actively or passively?
El Jason
Well-known member
I don't even know who any of the guys are in the top row.
All of the information I listed is actually included in the legal analysis when it comes to determining if use of force was lawful or not. It's called the totality of the circumstances and is used to evaluate whether the force used was both reasonable and necessary.
Pictures are cute, but rather irrelevant here.
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