Blue Lives Matter

[Wildabeest]

One of my favorite things to do is to buy wildlife firefighters pitchers or fill their cards at the Blackfoot. Adding LEO's as well.

I guess we need another thread for Yellow Lives Matter...

 

[Sytes]

I guess we need another thread for Yellow Lives Matter...
View attachment 147785

Beats the hell out of a race specific lives matter
Hell ya! Already do support, always will!

 

[VikingsGuy]

You should chat with one of your officer friends and see if s/he will let you go through a shoot don't shoot scenario… you might have a different feeling about doing the best you can to protect life and property and find that split second decision...

You want to improve law enforcement? Increase funding for training increase funding for quality recruitment.
Increase Training… Screw quarterly! I would strongly suggest 6 times a year… Primarily > Firearms & Use of Force. Both combined with constitutional law and current rulings wrapped into Redman scenarios and classroom setting. However, PowerPoint hell is chit for training.

You want to cut law enforcement budget then you're directly harming your own community...

*This is my personal opinion.

They have a horribly difficult job, no doubt. And I expect our system to respect that, but too often the unions put bad cops back on the street. In Minneapolis, Kroll is why Chauven was on the street that day. Enough is enough.

As for funding - I fully support better funding, let's put money into training instead of quasi-tanks and settlements for the misdeeds of the few bad cops that keep being protected by the many more good cops.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I appreciate everyone who supports law enforcement. My significant other and several family members are in law enforcement. For all those who support them, I thank you on their behalf. As for those who don't support them, odds are you're one of the lawbreakers. Next time you need help from an officer and you don't support law enforcement, then think about handling whatever situation you're in by yourself.

Simply not this black and white. A reasonable person can support the good cops and demand the clean up of the few bad ones - no contradiction there.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Even though there really is no difference (absent prison guards who can shoot an escapee) between the standards an LEO is held to for use of lethal force vs. that of a private citizen? It still comes down to a person having the means and capability to inflict serious bodily harm and/or death, and the person believes they are likely to do so.

Not sure if that is entirely correct, but even if it is, the police in practice get partial immunity that the private citizen doesn't get, they get much more deference from prosecutors and juries, they get much more training than a citizen gets, and they are entrusted in a way an average citizen is not. And the citizens do not get cover from a union or the thin blue line. So I think the situations are quite different.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Beats the hell out of a race specific lives matter

When would a race-specific "lives matter" movement be appropriate? Even if a race is disproportionately singled out, marginalized and systematically suppressed? Would it be okay to then stand up for those brothers and sisters? If people of other races are offended by that, then they should probably ask themselves why. What would you say to someone who was mistreated by bad police officers through no fault of their own, and is offended when someone says "blue lives matter?"

When Jesus went looking for the lost sheep, do you suppose the other sheep were offended?

 

[runningmt]

When would a race-specific "lives matter" movement be appropriate? Even if a race is disproportionately singled out, marginalized and systematically suppressed? Would it be okay to then stand up for those brothers and sisters? If people of other races are offended by that, then they should probably ask themselves why. What would you say to someone who was mistreated by bad police officers through no fault of their own, and is offended when someone says "blue lives matter?"

When Jesus went looking for the lost sheep, do you suppose the other sheep were offended?

Spot on

 

[VikingsGuy]

Soap box moment. ymmv.

I am confused by the line of reasoning that pops up from time to time on this topic that proposes the false alternative of, "you either support 100% of the police 100% of the time without question or inquiry, or you just fend for yourself when the criminals are at your door". That is undoubtedly false choice rhetoric as, "you support our large majority of good police in a tough job while finding and removing the smaller number of bad police" is an entirely viable (and I argue) preferable option.

False choice rhetoric is one of the root causes behind our polarization - we should try our best to avoid it. It isn't just blue lives where this pops up. We often see, "you either support unlimited firearms access or you agree to bow before the king", or "you either support every conceivable pro-public land position regardless of the particular specifics or you want to be just like Europe with only the upper crust having access", or "you either acknowledge that hunting elk with a 6.5 creedmoor is a crime against nature or you just want your sons to grow up flat-brimmed, wimpy and hapless", etc. etc.

We can (and generally do) better than this.

 

[Panda Bear]

Soap box moment. ymmv.

I am confused by the line of reasoning that pops up from time to time on this topic that proposes the false alternative of, "you either support 100% of the police 100% of the time without question or inquiry, or you just fend for yourself when the criminals are at your door". That is undoubtedly false choice rhetoric as, "you support our large majority of good police in a tough job while finding and removing the smaller number of bad police" is an entirely viable (and I argue) preferable option.

False choice rhetoric one of the root causes behind our polarization - we should try out best to avoid it. It isn't just blue lives where this pops up. We often see, "you either support unlimited firearms access or you agree to bow before the king", or "you either support every conceivable pro-public land position regardless of the particular specifics or you want to be just like Europe with only the upper crust having access", or "you either acknowledge that hunting elk with a 6.5 creedmoor is a crime against nature or you just want your sons to grow up flat-brimmed, wimpy and hapless", etc. etc.

We can (and generally do) better than this.

I agree !

As an Indian I have had my share of negative comments and actions come my way, but it would be wrong of me to blame all white men and women for the actions of one or a few. As a woman I have had negative comments and actions thrown my way but it would be a mistake to blame all men for the actions of a few. I have had run ins with individuals from the RCMP but I support them, as a group, 100%. What would I accomplish by burning down and looting my own neighborhood ? To be honest I have found conversation, even with those who have been rude, to be more beneficial, not only to myself but for my race and gender, than some type of forceful and destructive action.

For me----Blue Lives matter---and I have had disagreements with those in law enforcement. All lives matter ---and I have had disagreements with members of other races as well as men and women of my own race. I do draw the line however and find it hard to forgive white men form the U.S. who seem determined to decrease the numbers of our Stone sheep herd

 

[Losing_Sanity]

When would a race-specific "lives matter" movement be appropriate? Even if a race is disproportionately singled out, marginalized and systematically suppressed? Would it be okay to then stand up for those brothers and sisters? If people of other races are offended by that, then they should probably ask themselves why. What would you say to someone who was mistreated by bad police officers through no fault of their own, and is offended when someone says "blue lives matter?"

When Jesus went looking for the lost sheep, do you suppose the other sheep were offended?

I don't think it is the "Race Specific" that is objectionable, per say. But I do have issue with any race being placed over another, period. Can't have equality without removing the race from comparison.

That said, I don't much care for the race card being shoved down my throat. There are many people, like me, that do not discriminate and did not have an issue. Some people are now feeling the pressure of race specific issues being forefront and pushed on them. And to them, race specific is getting objectionable for that reason. Because they feel that all lives are important and they are being "wrong" for being white and no other reason. Bottom line, you can't have race specific and not have it be discriminate to another race. Just my opinion...

 

[VikingsGuy]

As the "Black Lives Matter", "Blue Lives Matter", "All Lives Matter" terminology issue keeps popping up in this thread, I will repost my perspective from an earlier HT discussion on this topic:

If I was to say, "Black lives need to matter just as much as white lives and when I look at the world I do not believe that is currently the case. We need to work to change this." would that cause confusion, dismay or cries of reverse racism? No one short of the KKK would disagree with the first 11 words and many would agree with the whole thing. No one would read this and say that I cared more about black lives than white lives.

But that is a mouth full, so I to shorten it to, "Black Lives Matter". No change in intent from the longer text above. And why not ALM? "All Lives Matters" misses my point that apparently some lives do not.

The most technically accurate shortening would have been "Black Lives Matter Too". But really, with all the problems with division we have in this country and hundreds of years of race-based discrimination, that is where people are going to criticize? That they are so unable to understand the issue that I have to add "Too" so their feelings aren't hurt? I don't buy it for one minute.

I believe that most people like the status quo on most topics. Status quo situation, status quo ideas, status quo beliefs. And most people will work really hard to find reasons not to change any of it, most of all their preconceived notions. So, I believe, that many of the objections raised by those denying there is a problem are just simply trivial dismissals used to prevent them from actually engaging the real issues at hand. The BLM vs ALM issue is a sham argument that has served the preservers of the status quo well. I am glad to see many on this forum see through it.

 

[Sytes]

@Justabirdwatcher . Losing_Sanity saved my time posting.

But I do have issue with any race being placed over another, period. Can't have equality without removing the race from comparison.

That said, I don't much care for the race card being shoved down my throat.

When Jesus went looking for the lost sheep, do you suppose the other sheep were offended?

The parallel, sheep = human, aka, All Lives Matter. When supporting humans, be it, any race or gender, I'm 100% supportive.
A single race? I call b.s.

 

[Irrelevant]

As the "Black Lives Matter", "Blue Lives Matter", "All Lives Matter" terminology issue keeps popping up in this thread, I will repost my perspective from an earlier HT discussion on this topic:

...and I will still disagree with it. I'm all in on All Lives Matter as a tenet to live by and not some slogan to be used for a few months in protests.

 

[406dn]

They have a horribly difficult job, no doubt. And I expect our system to respect that, but too often the unions put bad cops back on the street. In Minneapolis, Kroll is why Chauven was on the street that day. Enough is enough.

As for funding - I fully support better funding, let's put money into training instead of quasi-tanks and settlements for the misdeeds of the few bad cops that keep being protected by the many more good cops.

One horrible union boss,, if we stipulate that Kroll is one,, does not justify denying police generally a union, if they want one. All throughout this thread is,, don't judge the whole by the actions of a few.

Frankly, a bigger problem than unions, and was part of the George Floyd homicide, is that too often cops cover bad behavior for each other. The four involved in this tragedy tried to get away with a report that was not truthful. If you strip away a policeman's union rights regarding discipline, it is pretty safe to speculate that they will be more inclined to create false reports to protect each other.

 

[3855WIN]

BLM is saying respect me as a person, like you would anyone else.
I think most of us are fairly good about that. I’ll respect a Black man with his pants down showing his butt just like I’ll respect a white man showing his butt. And that’s not much, for either one of them.
I have zero respect for the recent Florida killer (white), with 230 felony charges. I feel similar about the parent of the 13 year old armed robber in our community the other day.
On an individual level, if you want your life to matter, act like it does. Did John Lewis’s life matter? Your damn right, it did. He demanded it by the life he lived and what he fought for.

 

[Troutnut]

I think a lot of confusion would have been avoided if "BLM" had gone with the acronym "BLAM" -- Black Lives Also Matter. That's the intended meaning: to counter people and systems that treat them like they don't matter, not to suggest that they matter more or less than anyone else.

The reason people have a problem with "All Lives Matter" is not that they disagree with those three words spoken in that order; it's that it's seen as a disrespectful attempt to change the subject from BLM. A good analogy to saying "All Lives Matter" would be showing up at a fundraiser for pancreatic cancer in a t-shirt that says "All Cancers Matter." Yes, they do, but it's not an appropriate context to point that out.

 

[rjthehunter]

Simply not this black and white. A reasonable person can support the good cops and demand the clean up of the few bad ones - no contradiction there.

There's bad people everywhere, every line of work, every race, every gender. So yes they need to be monitored. However, I don't start rioting and pushing for reformation of black men... They commit over half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 percent of the population.

I'm not racist but the entire blm movement has nothing to do with black lives. It's an anti cop movement by lawbreakers. All lives matter. If blm truly cared, they would be working within their own communities to cut violence rates which in turn would cut down on police interactions.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2023 | Statista

Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 432 civilians having been shot, 53 of whom were Black, as of June 1, 2023.

www.statista.com

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

ucr.fbi.gov

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Happy Friday everybody!

 

[noharleyyet]

Happy Friday everybody!

Why thank you dear....

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I don't think it is the "Race Specific" that is objectionable, per say. But I do have issue with any race being placed over another, period. Can't have equality without removing the race from comparison.

That said, I don't much care for the race card being shoved down my throat. There are many people, like me, that do not discriminate and did not have an issue. Some people are now feeling the pressure of race specific issues being forefront and pushed on them. And to them, race specific is getting objectionable for that reason. Because they feel that all lives are important and they are being "wrong" for being white and no other reason. Bottom line, you can't have race specific and not have it be discriminate to another race. Just my opinion...

Why do people interpret "black lives matter" as "black lives matter MORE?" That's a very curious interpretation.

black lives matter doesn't offend me in the least. Every time I hear it I'm like, yes, yes they do, with no need to offer a rebuttal. Pretty easy really.