BLM Grazing Overhaul

[Deleted member 20812]

The numbers are low for sure, but they are also mis leading. The ranchers have to hire full time cowboys to manage the cow herds all summer and provide them with all their living expenses/vehicles/equipment/ and any fencing/watertank materials that are necessary when they are running on public lands. If they lease private land they don't need to do that. The private landowner provides all of those things to them. Most ranchers would prefer to run their herds on private all day so they don't have to deal with the headache of employees and some of the whack ass government employees.

I'm not familiar with many or any private grazing leases that come with range rider employees.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

SSS ( shoot, snicker, shut up). Let’s be real here, ain’t nobody digging a hole for a cow. #aintgottimeforthat. #takebackourpubliclands

This is an idiotic comment.

#BeBest

 

[Carnage2011]

I'm not familiar with many or any private grazing leases that come with range rider employees.

Really? Maybe it's just a thing in my part of the world....but I can lease pasture right now from 6 different ranchers in the bighole, madison, or ruby valley and they check health on them for me.

 

[Carnage2011]

This is an idiotic comment.

#BeBest

I'd venture to guess that our new friend Arctic Snow isn't nearly as tough when a younger rancher is standing in front of him.

 

[Arctic_Snow_Seeker]

The numbers are low for sure, but they are also mis leading. The ranchers have to hire full time cowboys to manage the cow herds all summer and provide them with all their living expenses/vehicles/equipment/ and any fencing/watertank materials that are necessary when they are running on public lands. If they lease private land they don't need to do that. The private landowner provides all of those things to them. Most ranchers would prefer to run their herds on private all day so they don't have to deal with the headache of employees and some of the whack ass government employees.

The ranchers do not have to hire "full time cowboys" based off if they graze on public or private. It would be based off size of operation. Even then its nothing to round up a few friends to play cowboy a few times a year to handle a mid size operation(branding & roundups).

If they lease private lands they still need the same amount of manpower equipment etc. Whomever you lease the land from is just leasing you the land.

Most ranchers would love for all the land to be private. You got that right. They think if there's grass on it there should be a cow on it.

Ranchers are wolves in new pickup trucks.

 

[Carnage2011]

The ranchers do not have to hire "full time cowboys" based off if they graze on public or private. It would be based off size of operation. Even then its nothing to round up a few friends to play cowboy a few times a year to handle a mid size operation(branding & roundups).

If they lease private lands they still need the same amount of manpower equipment etc. Whomever you lease the land from is just leasing you the land.

Most ranchers would love for all the land to be private. You got that right. They think if there's grass on it there should be a cow on it.

Ranchers wolves in new pickup trucks.

You confirmed it. You have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[Arctic_Snow_Seeker]

You confirmed it. You have no idea what you are talking about...

Someone must have access to some private land. HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Regardless of support or disagreement with public land grazing, it is FAR more complicated and entrenched in historic law and policy than almost anyone realizes. Other than that I'm staying out of this one.

 

[bigsky2]

The numbers are low for sure, but they are also mis leading. The ranchers have to hire full time cowboys to manage the cow herds all summer and provide them with all their living expenses/vehicles/equipment/ and any fencing/watertank materials that are necessary when they are running on public lands. If they lease private land they don't need to do that. The private landowner provides all of those things to them. Most ranchers would prefer to run their herds on private all day so they don't have to deal with the headache of employees and some of the whack ass government employees.

That is a good point and probably true of a lot the operations that run cows on your National Forest stomping grounds, but not the case for most BLM leases in the eastern half of MT.

 

[Carnage2011]

Someone must have access to some private land. HAHAHAHAHA

Or maybe I spend a lot of time on public land and have been to the meetings to back up my points? I don't have any access on private lands (ok i can shoot a few whitetail does) that anyone else couldn't get by knocking on a door.

 

[Carnage2011]

That is a good point and probably true of a lot the operations that run cows on your National Forest stomping grounds, but not the case for most BLM leases in the eastern half of MT.

That's true. We are definitely talking about different scales. I'm not familiar with the blm grazing practices out east. All of my information comes from the local national forest grazing allotments.

 

[Oak]

Regardless of support or disagreement with public land grazing, it is FAR more complicated and entrenched in historic law and policy than almost anyone realizes.

And this is why there is likely no good for wildlife to come from this process of "streamlining" the permitting process by this administration, if we are being honest.

One big change I would like to see made is for there to be a provision allowing for retirement of allotments that are waived back without preference due to resource conflicts.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Really? Maybe it's just a thing in my part of the world....but I can lease pasture right now from 6 different ranchers in the bighole, madison, or ruby valley and they check health on them for me.

My best friend has a number of very large private grazing leases. He provides labor at all of them. Federal leases are still farm ore lucrative. He has been pursuing a local BLM allotment for years now, with no luck.

 

[Arctic_Snow_Seeker]

Or maybe I spend a lot of time on public land and have been to the meetings to back up my points? I don't have any access on private lands (ok i can shoot a few whitetail does) that anyone else couldn't get by knocking on a door.

So you don’t have any experience running a ranching operation? Probably no business background either? Check and check. I would post my experience with this but it wouldn’t be fair to you since you have no experience regarding ranching and business. But hey you spend time on public lands! Went to a meeting! Stayed at a holiday inn express!

I’m anti public land grazing and ranchers are wolves in new pickup trucks with no money.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

and ranchers are wolves in new pickup trucks with no money.

That's a pretty broad brush.

 

[Carnage2011]

So you don’t have any experience running a ranching operation? Probably no business background either? Check and check. I would post my experience with this but it wouldn’t be fair to you since you have no experience regarding ranching and business. But hey you spend time on public lands! Went to a meeting! Stayed at a holiday inn express!

I’m anti public land grazing and ranchers are wolves in new pickup trucks with no money.

Once again you assume and have no proof. I own two different businesses and both have a fair amount to do with public lands. This isn't about your credentials or my credentials. There are good ranchers that provide a lot of benefits and there are bad ranchers that give the rest of them a bad name. Your generalizations and assumptions are pretty impressive though!

 

[BuzzH]

And this is why there is likely no good for wildlife to come from this process of "streamlining" the permitting process by this administration, if we are being honest.

One big change I would like to see made is for there to be a provision allowing for retirement of allotments that are waived back without preference due to resource conflicts.

Have to agree with Oak on this one...anytime I see "streamlining" and federal process in the same sentence, its pretty much code for "gut"....

 

[Carnage2011]

My best friend has a number of very large private grazing leases. He provides labor at all of them. Federal leases are still farm ore lucrative. He has been pursuing a local BLM allotment for years now, with no luck.

Interesting. I think the biggest difference is I'm dealing with a lot of the National Forrest permits and don't have much experience with the BLM side of it. Running cows on 100,000 acres of forest is different that 5,000 of BLM.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Interesting. I think the biggest difference is I'm dealing with a lot of the National Forrest permits and don't have much experience with the BLM side of it. Running cows on 100,000 acres of forest is different that 5,000 of BLM.

Not necessarily

 

[Arctic_Snow_Seeker]

Once again you assume and have no proof. I own two different businesses and both have a fair amount to do with public lands. This isn't about your credentials or my credentials. There are good ranchers that provide a lot of benefits and there are bad ranchers that give the rest of them a bad name. Your generalizations and assumptions are pretty impressive though!

There’s always exceptions to the rules. And just so you know, a rancher driving by leased land looking to make sure those cows are all standing doesn’t replace the requirement for “cowboy” for the public land grazers. And why would those ranchers have land to lease? This story doesn’t add up....

Good grief. Ranchers are blue collar lawyers. Can’t trust em.