Bighorns, Bears, and Bad Blood
- Thread starter BigHornRam
- Start date
OverlordBear
Well-known member
Yeah I definitely want to buy some raffle tickets
geetar
Well-known member
I agree 100 percent. This is exactly how I feel about it but didn’t have the right words to express it so clearly.
If we can collectively raise millions in one weekend at the sheep show we sure as hell can put to fund and retainers for litigation that would make this DB’s life miserable, who knows he may even cry uncle if it hits is pocket hard enough. If protecting one of if not the most prized herds of big horn sheep in this country isnt part of conservation and putting and keeping sheep on the mountain than what is? We can try all we want to make an agreement however with some people thats not as good as the toilet paper it would be written on. Seeing the pattern of behavior from from this guy you might as well wipe with it as that’s all it’s worth. Some people you have to just plan beat, compromise is waste of time.
great idea on sheep show money but which rich guy gets to be first in line to shoot a big ram for “conservation”
D
Deleted member 16014
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I will say the following, independent of this specific case but being intimately familiar with natural resource policy and how it plays out in practice: No matter which side of an issue you are on, litigation can backfire hard. As bad as status quo might seem for the hunter, landowner, agency, ngo, or whoever it may be, losing a court battle can be worse in the long run.
This is probably relevant to this discussion:
Liz Cheney undecided, Lummis dominates Wyoming Senate race
Liz Cheney undecided, Lummis dominates Wyoming Senate race
D
Deleted member 16014
Guest
All we got is “Kanye don’t tip” stickers 
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I would rather spend limited dollars on disease research than frivolous litigation. Most folks I know agree.
MSU is doing good work. The native Wyoming sheep herd discussed in the original link have been exposed to, and carry pathogens from domestic sheep from back in the 1800's. Have these bighorns developed some tolerance to disease where others wild sheep herds have not?
Having a nearby herd of wild sheep in the Bridgers would be helpful for future research IMO. Making these issue's political will not be helpful.
MSU is doing good work. The native Wyoming sheep herd discussed in the original link have been exposed to, and carry pathogens from domestic sheep from back in the 1800's. Have these bighorns developed some tolerance to disease where others wild sheep herds have not?
Having a nearby herd of wild sheep in the Bridgers would be helpful for future research IMO. Making these issue's political will not be helpful.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Reading Kurt Alt's summary of this conference in the Fall Wild Sheep publication, it was a productive conference.
www.wildsheepfoundation.org
Wild Sheep Foundation
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Science
journals.plos.org
Respiratory pathogens and their association with population performance in Montana and Wyoming bighorn sheep populations
Respiratory disease caused by Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae and Pasteurellaceae poses a formidable challenge for bighorn sheep (Ovis canadensis) conservation. All-age epizootics can cause 10–90% mortality and are typically followed by multiple years of enzootic disease in lambs that hinders...
BigHornRam
Well-known member
More science
Scrappy
Well-known member
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- Mar 25, 2017
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Just what I was thinking, if the BLM caved and works with one landowner then others will be doing the same.
Science is great I'm all for increased research on the disease and how it affects wild sheep. Who knows what may be discovered and how we could use it as a tool in conservation in the future? However we know for a fact that when wild sheep come in contact with domestic sheep wild sheep loose. I am not willing to to wait on science for a solution when we know that total elimination of contact and full segregation of the two will prevent infection in wild sheep. Seems to me that agreements haven't worked in the past with this vindictive prick and we we should be looking at alternative options, while we are waiting and hoping for a Scientific solution.
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One of the few remaining native bighorn sheep herds in MT, the Kootenai Trench Herd (Canadian name) has been interacting with a domestic herd of sheep in the Eureka area... It's a battle that lacks any teeth. I've personally seen domestic sheep racing around during their rut, called Region 1 Biologist, he arrived the next day along with the Canadian counter part...
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Are you a WSF member? Give Kurt or one of the other guys in Bozeman a call and talk to them about your concerns.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Better understanding leads to better policies long term. Politicizing issues we still don't completely understand can lead to bad policies with unintended consequences.
What about on private property. How do you intend to control domestic-wild sheep interactions on private property?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Always an excuse with you...just business as usual.
You start where the policy can be implemented and that's retiring domestic sheep leases on federal land and making sure that wildlife of all kinds get a fair shake under the law. What can be controlled NOW is too keep separation between wild sheep and domestics. I would also argue that in the case of bighorns, there is a lot less of them that use private lands than there are other species like deer and elk. Many spend all their time, or a very very large percentage of their time on federal lands. That's not to say that there wont be some cases, in particular on transplanted herds, where they use private land much more.
While I have mixed emotions about the amount of money that is spent baby sitting bighorn sheep, I do agree with Oak and others that separation between domestics and wild sheep is currently the best way to keep them healthy. I'm 100% on board with the efforts to control interactions on Federal Land...all efforts including litigation, policies on Federal Land that can be leveraged by WSF/RMBHS in favor of wild sheep, and buying out leases.
The herds that spend time on private property are always going to be a challenge, everyone knows that.
That said, the issue with Frank Robbins that you posted is about him trying to control Federal Lands and treat them as his own. He and his family are the Wyoming version of the Bundy Clan, they believe the rules don't apply to them, then cry foul when the Agencies take action against their mountains of violations on Federal Land.
Why these types are not dealt with via the fullest extent of the law by the agencies is the biggest problem. Rules seem to only apply to those that aren't politically connected...even to the point of allowing one family to potentially impact the publics wildlife. That isn't right by any stretch of the imagination and IMO, the only way this will be corrected is via serious litigation and perhaps legislation.
Heres the type of guy that wild sheep advocates are having to "deal with" on this issue:
Reckless rancher cuts sweet deal in D.C.
The Bush administration cuts a deal with Wyoming rancher Harvey Frank Robbins Jr., and orders the Worland BLM office to back off on enforcing grazing regulations
www.hcn.org
Conservation groups, landowner battle over domestic sheep
OWL CREEK MOUNTAINS -- Frank Robbins says he doesn’t mean to offend. He is, in his view, a victim of government harassment, a private property owner targeted for doing with
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