Big Two's

[BraidenR]

While scouting last month I found a number of larger forkies. All of them were in a general area. It is my own belief that this a trait that these bucks inherited, and will pass on. I spoke with another individual that claimed this is just an anomaly in that particular deer and wont be a trait they give to their young. Another individual claimed these bucks were the same age, just different growth. I am no expert, but I am looking to learn. So lets see your largest to points, whats your guess on their age, and if you think they will pass on this trait or not.

Personally, having spent most my life hunting and working cows in this generally area, The smaller buck is a great representative of 99.9% of the two points in the region. He is a typical forky. Because of this I believe the larger buck to be a year older, and I found two others with about a half mile radius of the "older buck" that almost mirror him. I know I didnt jump him because I was sitting in the same spot with the spotter seeing all these bucks in the same day. Photos did not turn out on the others( to much wind and shaking on them).

 

[NEWHunter]

Half that buck’s DNA came from his Mom. Even if that rack configuration is genetic, it doesn’t mean the buck is passing it on.

 

[kenton]

Way too many factors to make anything more than just a wild guess. Age, genetics, nutrition, pure chance ... even just a cold start to the growing season could cause a higher percentage of bucks to grow smaller than normal antlers.

 

[Deleted member 38069]

Nutrition is key

 

[MThuntr]

Nutrition is key

MeatEater had a biologist on their podcast some months ago and he expressed this multiple times. They were able to "grow" different size antlers simply by modifying quality of forage...at least that's what I remember. Definitely worth another listen.

 

[Jape]

MeatEater had a biologist on their podcast some months ago and he expressed this multiple times. They were able to "grow" different size antlers simply by modifying quality of forage...at least that's what I remember. Definitely worth another listen.

I seem to recall the same thing, and I think the nutrition the buck’s mother gained while the buck was still in the womb was key. They did a controlled study with deer out of the Dakotas.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

All I know is I love big forkies! That big one would have gotten a ride home with me.
Matt

 

[madtom]

Those are good pics to show people that want long-term antler point restrictions.

 

[Deleted member 38069]

MeatEater had a biologist on their podcast some months ago and he expressed this multiple times. They were able to "grow" different size antlers simply by modifying quality of forage...at least that's what I remember. Definitely worth another listen.

I enjoyed that episode very much.

 

[Eric.MN]

Last year I shot a big 2pt. He was a mature buck and I saw plenty of bigger bucks in the area from where I shot him so I wouldnt think it was lack of nutrition. But he was only a 2x2. To me it seemed he was always going to be only a 2 but that’s just my guess.

 

[marshman]

For years it seems like i have been a magnet for big forkies. This one two years ago.

 

[madtom]

I shot this one in 2017. WGFD aged his teeth at 9.5. May have had more points when he was younger, but who knows.

 

[Old man bob]

Nutrition at the right time of year is the key. Then to be a monster they gotta have great genetics. With this being one of the best antler growth years for Elk and Deer , there has been alot of chatter on websites down here this year and on podcasts too. .I am talking about Arizona and western New Mexico. It has come in the form of great rain last fall ,provided great Winter feed and great snow fall and rain in the Winter and Spring gave them great spring and early summer food. We had one of the worst monsoon seasons ever July and August, but the great growth was allready done. We need a good Fall and Winter this year to make up for the loss of monsoon. Or next years growth is gonna be bad.Here a Big 2 that was an old Buck and probably never gonna be a 3. From 10 years ago inwestern New Mexico. Last day Buck. He looked cool on His feet.....BOB!

 

[wyoboypt]

Heck of a 4 pointer! Plus eye guards makes him a sixer!!!

 

[SAJ-99]

Half that buck’s DNA came from his Mom. Even if that rack configuration is genetic, it doesn’t mean the buck is passing it on.

Doesn't it depend on if the gene is recessive or dominant and where the gene is on the chromosome? I have never seen the gene sequence for mule deer, but I can make a good guess that mom didn't have antlers. If antler size didn't matter in the area of natural selection, why have them at all?

 

[Old man bob]

You got Me on that one. I don't go that deep as I am not a Biologist. I just Go bye the Basics I mentioned As thats what most People can comprehend and look at. Thanks for the iinput. I just know if the Groceries are not there at the right time of year there will be Smaller horn growth.........BOB!

 

[p_ham]

This was an older buck, feed in this area is phenomenal. His tines are bladed and his bases have the big gnarly knobs the older muleys get. He was half again bigger body wise than the bucks he was with. He had over an inch of gelatinous fat over his rump and my hands were dripping grease from scooping fat from around his tenderloins. No idea if he regressed or was always just a forkie. I never thought to look at his teeth but will check once I get the skull back.

 

[NEWHunter]

Doesn't it depend on if the gene is recessive or dominant and where the gene is on the chromosome? I have never seen the gene sequence for mule deer, but I can make a good guess that mom didn't have antlers. If antler size didn't matter in the area of natural selection, why have them at all?

I didn’t suggest antler size didn’t matter. Mom probably didn’t have antlers but she did provide half the blueprint.

 

[LopeHunter]

I think all does which have antlers are sterile as are bucks with antlers that stay in velvet so never drop.

My hunch is a buck will be what a buck will be based on DNA along with age and that cycle's forage and health. I am sure bucks tend to pass on similar DNA so a buck prone to drop tines or heavy mass or wide spreads will tend to pass that on and bucks with not much mass or width will pass that on. Passing on a tendency to have fewer points seems possible but agree the doe's DNA should be a factor so will not see a shift to mostly forkies across all age classes if in a 4 point or better unit. I think body size impacts what bucks gather up does more than antler size and depending on buck to doe ratio most of the bucks will end up with multiple does each autumn rather than only a few of the bucks.

There is a lot written about QDMA techniques though my take on that is the better forage and loose feed drive antler size. Some folks buy the giant whitetail bucks to improve genetics but nothing random about those bucks as were bred and culled for generations inside pens. Think of those bucks as the 1% Club and not something that could isolate in a wild herd to improve a wild herd. Too many "typical" bucks to outcompete one freak buck released from a pen.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Genetics set the morphological blueprint, nutrition fills it out (or not).