Bid it up Bozeman

PrairieHunter

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Compared to places where there has been zero logging for decades ie the lodge pole pine forests or northern CO. I’m all for timbering as a forestry tool, I’m just not flagging Bozeman as ground zero for overgrown.

and it’s a corolla, I don’t like driving automatics...

Bridgers May 2016
View attachment 93387
There is a lot more utilization and logging in NoCo than around Bozeman. Sit at the Forks any day and you will see trucks of logs heading out. Confluence takes a bunch of wood on the back side, as well as some from Wyoming including all the waste from the mill in Saratoga.

Biochar Now hauls in Logs from the front range as do other industries.

The Snowies supply the mill in Saratoga as well as the post peeling operations in Laramie plus an enormous amount of this wood goes to the black hills.

But there is always a need for more utilization. Especially in places like Bozeman that are badly overgrown and have not been managed for years. I think the mill in Livingston is about the only big industry left up there.

This pretty much shows where the wood in Montana is harvested 2011- 2016, and as you can see very little around Bozeman.
https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_series/rmrs/rb/rmrs_rb026.pdf
 
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PrairieHunter

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R Y out of Livingston is having a hard time getting logs among other things.

http://www.northernbroadcasting.com/news-headlines/ry-timber-gets-sabotaged/
Wow. That's bad news but also an indicator of the challenges in that area. I bet that ends up being a lot more than 10k in damage. Thanks for sharing.

I don't get the mindset that would rather let overgrown forest burn out of control while risking lives and wasting money putting the fire out compared to creating jobs, utilizing wood, reducing fire risk, letting foresters manage, etc..
 
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BigHornRam

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Did you catch the part about 21 Montana forest projects with injunctions last summer Prairehunter? Sad way to treat our forest lands.

Here is some extreme fire behavior for you Rob. Might have taken a couple minutes for this fire from a couple years ago to go over the top of this rock face. Private land owner didn't believe in thinning and lost all their trees and home because of it.

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PrairieHunter

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Did you catch the part about 21 Montana forest projects with injunctions last summer Prairehunter? Sad way to treat our forest lands.
Absolutely. Sounds like the foresters hands are tied and with no tools to manage nothing can be done. I would imagine that kills industry and causes the jobs to leave as well.
 

RobG

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Here is some extreme fire behavior for you Rob. Might have taken a couple minutes for this fire from a couple years ago to go over the top of this rock face. Private land owner didn't believe in thinning and lost all their trees and home because of it.
Can you please stop throwing stuff up here in hopes that it will stick. Almost the entire east side of this basin will remain unlogged so this "management" won't help control a fire at the flank of Ellis. How about you dive into the EIS and start making relevant comments based on specifics?

The fire risk reduction from this project is pretty small considering the overall situation. The big risk IMO is the massive amount of second growth up Hyalite. This illustrates the problems with using logging as a fire management tool: the industry can't even get enough timber sales in redneckville MT to keep up with their second growth. Do you really think the industry can do better around Bozeman with all its trust-fund enviros?
 

BigHornRam

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Rob,

Dan Rogers is a competent employee of the state of Montana.

"Dan Rogers, trust lands forest management bureau chief for DNRC, told the land board that the final proposal was the result of a lengthy public input process.

“This is really a solid sale package built on extraordinary public comment and project compromise,” Rogers said."

I trust that Dan has gone way beyond what is necessary to try to satisfy the "trust-fund enviros"

Bottom line this is state school trust land. They can hire all the lawyers they want. Won't make a difference.
 

BigHornRam

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Absolutely. Sounds like the foresters hands are tied and with no tools to manage nothing can be done. I would imagine that kills industry and causes the jobs to leave as well.
Good people are working hard to untie the foresters hands here.

http://dnrc.mt.gov/news/governor-bullock-unveils-new-forestry-stewardship-partnership

"The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation wholeheartedly supports the use of the federal Good Neighbor Authority (GNA) to expand and expedite forest management across priority forests and watersheds in Montana," said Blake Henning, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation’s Chief Conservation Officer. “One of the primary attributes of the Good Neighbor Authority is that it allows for forest project planning and management across all landownerships. RMEF looks forward to being an active partner in Governor Bullock's Forest's in Focus Initiative 2.0 and supporting enhanced forest management activities across Montana.”
 

RobG

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Thanks BHR, I can't disagree with any of that. I am surprised how many times the DNRC has revisited this to accommodate the anti-logging folks. In fact, the reason I didn't really dive into this was because I kept thinking it was a done deal, but it keeps going.

I am surprised RMEF endorsed this so I'm looking deeper into this.
 

RobG

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Here's a question for you BHR. Do you think people should be able to bid against timber companies like this?
 

BuzzH

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Here's a question for you BHR. Do you think people should be able to bid against timber companies like this?
Tough question, but what is the mandate of the state school trust?

I also believe that long-term impacts of not thinning and logging and how that will impact potential future State revenues needs to be considered as well. Everything from recreational, wildlife, and set back timber rotation should be considered...if I had my way. Its not always about the money up front, but what the State can gain, or lose, in the long-term.
 

RobG

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Tough question, but what is the mandate of the state school trust?
As you probably know, it is "The Trust Lands Management Division administers and manages the state trust timber, surface, and mineral resources for the benefit of the common schools and the other endowed institutions in Montana, under the direction of the State Board of Land Commissioners."

After re-reading the article I see the reasoning for the 25 year period - by then the logs will be worth less so there is the question of whether the long term revenue is compromised. That's a valid argument. However, consider this when calculating revenue stream: there is a serious housing shortage caused by the university, yet the the state lands closer to town are used for ag, not housing which would generate more income and benefit to the university. There seems to be a lot of bias towards industry compared to the public so there is precedence for not maximizing long term revenue.


 

wllm1313

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There seems to be a lot of bias towards industry compared to the public so there is precedence for not maximizing long term revenue. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
To your point isn't the bridger park commerical site over by murdoch's on 7th, state land? Same wiht Goodwill and Bozeman Self Storage?
 

RobG

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To your point isn't the bridger park commerical site over by murdoch's on 7th, state land? Same wiht Goodwill and Bozeman Self Storage?
Yes it is, State Land is regularly used for non-Ag and I may have pushed my point about maximizing profit too far. In fact I think Bozeman is looking at developing "affordable" housing on the rest of that site. I see the East Gallatin Rec area is also on state land. That may be a better example of a playground for people, which I assume generates less income than other possibilities (or perhaps the city leases the land for a premium???).

rg
 

RobG

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Judge shot down the lawsuit. I do not understand the basis for the lawsuit as the law doesn't even make the "Conservation License" option a requirement. The Land Board appears to have been generous in making the offer in the first place.

There's more to talk about, but I have some snow density and gravity research to do.


 
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TreeDog

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They won the bid, but it looks like they'll still need to come up with the money. With the payments, performance bond, and liability insurance for 25 years this will get very expensive for them. Interested to see how this turn out.
 
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