Bid it up Bozeman

wllm1313

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BigHornRam what are your thoughts on the roads, I agree with keeping mills open but I’m wondering what you think about Robs concerns?
 

BigHornRam

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BigHornRam what are your thoughts on the roads, I agree with keeping mills open but I’m wondering what you think about Robs concerns?
Rob's cool little roadless stash is on state school trust land. The purpose of this land is to provide revenue to the state. Plenty of other nearby National Forest roadless land like this for Rob to frolic on.
img_20150815_135622834-4-1400x788.jpg
 

Straight Arrow

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Although generally opposed to new roads in pristine areas, the proposal is for roads to access the logging project, then reclaiming half of them while leaving the remaining roads closed to motorized access and to be used for fire suppression only if necessary. This area, as well as others south of Bozeman, poses a fire risk zone too close to structures so has qualified for fire risk mitigation. It's understandable that those who reside nearby value the viewshed and the wild forest just out their doorways, but the other considerations obviously have weighed in more strongly after analysis and discussions by DNRC and the Land Board. Apparently there is strong opposition to this project, as once again a lawsuit is emerging.

I adamantly agree that other areas south on the Gallatin Crest are more suited to wilderness designation to preserve and protect them and that is a cause worthy of higher priority.
 

BigHornRam

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Lawsuit has emerged from the same people that were demanding the opportunity to bid on the sale. Apparently they were just blowing smoke all the time and now they want to move the goalposts.
 

RobG

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I agree that, at only 25 years, it is not an equitable trade (although if memory serves they originally set it at 10 years). If it is logged the land won't be able to generate income for much longer than 25 years. That doesn't necessarily mean I support the lawsuit as I don't support nuisance lawsuits and I don't know the reasoning the land board chose 25 years, nor do I think it is legally necessary to generate equal income when used for different purposes.

Wllm1313 - I think prariedude is closer to the truth about the local forest situation. Most of the area to the south is second growth from logging decades ago. Because of the demographics of Bozeman I doubt if it will ever be socially acceptable to log those areas again. Ironically, that means logging made the fire danger worse.

StraightArrow - if millionaires want to build homes near forest they don't want logged let the damn things burn. Almost all of them are away from the forest anyway so their risks are manageable.
 

RobG

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BHR - they didn't move the goalposts as they have always maintained that the permit period was too short. I should note that I am not closely aligned with the guys actively opposing the sale. For a long time I didn't care because of Triple Tree and Eagle Rock high end developments stunk of NIMBY. My opinion on the matter changed and is based on personal visits by myself and my wife and feedback from other users. The area is unique whether you think so or not. That said, this isn't a project I've cared about enough to actively oppose or even submit written comments.
 

BigHornRam

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Rob, in 25 years most of those trees will be dead from either fire, insects, or overcrowded drought stress and have no value. Smart! Thin it now and you will have a healthy forest to look at in 25 years.

As for the homes........ https://www.buybozemanhomes.com/triple-tree-ranch-subdivision.php lots of dry grass, a good wind out of the east, ignition, and poof. Don't get upset if your home owners insurance doubles after that.

And for the irony, logging, fire suppression, and now not treating our overstocked forest is why we are set up for disaster in our NFs.
 

RobG

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BHR - do you have any first hand knowledge of the area? The fire hazard is orders of magnitude greater from a source in the grasses itself, for example from a loose chain on a trailer driving down the road or someone throwing out a cigarette. But even there I don't think those private grasslands could even carry much of a fire. That area gets a lot of moisture compared to Bozeman and, with a few exceptions, fire prevention means mowing your lawn.

The area to the east of there is protected by the rocky flanks of Mount Ellis and logged out areas similar to the ones Wllm1313 posted. If the fire were to go west it would have to burn downhill against the wind and through mature doug fir similar to this
IMG_1729.jpg.

A fire could sneak out to the south but again it would have to go downhill through some open timber. But again, I don't have any serious problems with the logging itself, but I don't like keeping the road open.
 
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BigHornRam

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I also took part in a Bridger Canyon forestry site tour at Battle Ridge campground about 3 years ago. Old growth overstocked, drought stressed and spruce budworm ravaged fir was on its last legs and scheduled to be thinned for campground safety concerns. This was not without resistance though. I assume that thinning took place.

Why do people with no forestry knowledge think they know better than the proffessionals?
 

wllm1313

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Given the seeming necessity of roads for logging, how do we deal with wilderness areas? This is in the eagle's nest wilderness area in CO. The wilderness area boundary is 500 yards from homes, the won't cut it because you can't use mechanical equipment and they suppress all fires because it's so close to homes. This forest will essentially never have healthy succession. There are many places where it's a total timber jail, there is so much downed log pole pine from beetles and then wind storms that you literally can't walk thorough it, huge swaths of the wilderness area look like someone upended a crate of lincoln logs.

eaglesnest.jpg
 

BigHornRam

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Given the seeming necessity of roads for logging, how do we deal with wilderness areas? This is in the eagle's nest wilderness area in CO. The wilderness area boundary is 500 yards from homes, the won't cut it because you can't use mechanical equipment and they suppress all fires because it's so close to homes. This forest will essentially never have healthy succession. There are many places where it's a total timber jail, there is so much downed log pole pine from beetles and then wind storms that you literally can't walk thorough it, huge swaths of the wilderness area look like someone upended a crate of lincoln logs.

View attachment 93417
Doubt anyone in that subdivision has homeowners insurance. When goes it's going to be big.
 

wllm1313

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It almost did last summer but they jumped on it pretty quick... we lived in there for a year and it was definitely something that had me worried.
 

PrairieHunter

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When goes it's going to be big.
Yep, a good overgrown forest with no management with about half beetle kill that has been dead for a few years, a perfect recipe for an inferno. Seems like there are a lot of those around the West these days.

I guess we can tune in this summer to see who gets to deal with this in 2019.
 
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