Beginning of the End?

[Deleted member 16864]

Apparently water rights don’t matter much. Ironically the ranch that encouraged employees to screw the guests is now screwing their neighbors under the new management.

Modern-Day Land Water Rights Dispute Unfolds on Montana’s Historic Ranchland

In a scene reminiscent of the hit TV show Yellowstone, a modern land battle is brewing in the small town of Clyde Park, Montana (pop. 332).A developer is pushing forward with plans to build an ultra-exclusive private golf club on a historic ranch, stirring up controversy and raising concerns about

m.bozemanmagazine.com

 

[Straight Arrow]

The original owner of the Crazy Mountain Ranch (CMR) who constructed the cool old western town of Deadrock was very neighborly and even hosted 4th of July parties with big name bands entertaining and lots of food for his neighbors. Sadly, then Marlboro bought the ranch and neighborliness seemed to vanish.
Now Cross Harbor Capital (under the guise of Lone Mountain Land Company) owns Big Sky, Yellowstone Club, CMR, and much more of SW Montana. Cross Harbor Capital has so much money and so many lawyers that issues seem to drag on and on, until opponents finances are exhausted. Or the opposing element is bought out or steamrolled.
Code of the West Montana qualities of integrity and good neighborliness are continously being diminished by greed headquarted on the east coast.

 

[elkduds]

SSDD

 

[Straight Arrow]

SSDD
View attachment 373967

'Recently read that book. It's another story about conflict between grassroots generational ranching versus uber wealthy large landowner newcomer "ranching" in Montana.
A similar scenario played out as the old time rancher money "played out" and the uber wealth prevailed.

 

[Treeshark]

Code of the West Montana qualities of integrity and good neighborliness are continously being diminished by greed headquarted on the east coast.

So creatith, so too destroy..

 

[Straight Arrow]

So creatith, so too destroy..

Profoundly unclear!?

 

[Treeshark]

Guys from “out east” created it, and now they’re destroying it.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Guys from “out east” created it, and now they’re destroying it.

Na - it was around long before them. They didnt create anything.

 

[noharleyyet]

"to destroy is always the first step in any creation."

-e.e. cummings

 

[Treeshark]

Na - it was around long before them. They didnt create anything.

Native Americans created it?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Native Americans created it?

I dont see it that way.

 

[noharleyyet]

Native Americans created it?

*asteroids

 

[BirdManMike]

They are pulling water from where? Rock Creek and Cottonwood, mainly?

Everything is dry before it reaches the Shields all summer already so the effect is mainly everyone with water rights between CMR and the Shields and maybe those downstream of CP on the Shields. Maybe we can get the tech billionaire that bought Hayhook up in arms (doubt it).

It does seem the river is a little bit lower each summer and irrigation is definitely going longer. Up until 5-6 years ago the river would come up mid September and there would be a decent run of brown trout up from the Jellostone in the fall. The past few years it seems the water doesnt come back up until mid October.

Whole valley is changing.

 

[Treeshark]

I dont see it that way.

Which direction did most of the white settlers come to Montana from? Perhaps my public school education has led me astray?

 

[peterk1234]

Isn't this the same group behind the push for the land swap in the crazies? If it is, I wonder if they picked up any additional water rights? Wouldn't that just be a kick in the balls. I believe it is the same group that also tried to purchase the town of Clyde Park.

Ya, what could go wrong?

Isn't Blackrock and or Goldman Sachs into this up their eyeballs as well?

 

[Irrelevant]

Hard to tell from the article but is anyone actually being impacted by the use? They make it sound like they are in a change process, and most parties agree the change will be approved. If that's the case, then not many regulators are going to intervene. But if existing rights are currently being impacted, I would sue the user in civil court, and the regulator for not enforcing. If they admit they're illegally using water, then you should win, and all legal expenses covered.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Which direction did most of the white settlers come to Montana from? Perhaps my public school education has led me astray?

Creating isnt finding.

 

[BirdManMike]

Hard to tell from the article but is anyone actually being impacted by the use? They make it sound like they are in a change process, and most parties agree the change will be approved. If that's the case, then not many regulators are going to intervene. But if existing rights are currently being impacted, I would sue the user in civil court, and the regulator for not enforcing. If they admit they're illegally using water, then you should win, and all legal expenses covered.

A few ranches, maybe 2 handfuls at most, may be affected if they are pulling for irrigation from the affected Shields tributaries.

There is more water allocated as water rights than there is actual water in the valley.

 

[longbow51]

It's a bit more complicated than it seems. No one is forcing land sales. Ranching is hard work; I, and many of us here, grew up doing it. Few kids want to do it; they see hard work and constant money worries (well enough chronicled in the aforementioned Yellowstone) vs. dollars and are more than happy to sell and live on the interest.

When one of the first of the very large ranches was formed, which I know about personally, the ranchers slid a number on a piece of paper across the table and the broker another. The broker's number was often larger, and they were ecstatic. Big house in town for cash, kids to college without loans.

The first sell-out was to MOGA with letting them take over our rivers; this is Stage II.

Real life John Dutton running for governor anytime soon?

 

[peterk1234]

A few ranches, maybe 2 handfuls at most, may be affected if they are pulling for irrigation from the affected Shields tributaries.

There is more water allocated as water rights than there is actual water in the valley.

Does the regulating authority for water rights monitor the water levels of the river? I think that is the most important question. I'm minutes from the Shields. That gets very low in the summer.

I hate golf courses. Talk about environmentally unfriendly. Not just water use. The chemicals they leach into water systems can be devastating. I'm originally from the east. I've seen what they do to streams first hand.