Leupold BX-4 Rangefinding Binoculars

Bad deal for Arizona

VG, I think what you're going to see is resident and non-resident fees even out. It's going to put them on even ground. The ramifications of this ruling are going to be huge, and ripple through-out the west.
Oh, and yes USO outfitters suck.
USO has a double standard. Its all greed with them. They think its discrimination about the 10%cap, But feel its OK in their own state to have an outfitter preference in the nonres draw allotment. I dont think it will be long before someone sues NM and MT about the outfitter preference on state and federal land if they think a nonres cap is discrimination. This could backfire for USO.
All states you should draw a tag with the same odds if you have the coin to use an ouftitter or not, and get your outfitter afterwards. We as traditional, ethical hunters cannot say hunting is only for the rich man. I could care less about the nonres cap but USO helped push the Outfitter preference through, but didnt think that was discrimination then?????? They only want whats best for USO, thats all. Boycott them and any product or TV show that has anything to do with them.
BTW, You guys know that Valle Vidal tag I drew all on my own?? I get a call from some a-hole named Kaz or something from USO and leaves a message about how i should hunt with them because they have the equipment and horses and BLA BLAH BLAH. I literally yelled out loud FU## YOU and hit delete before the message ended.
Yeah A-con, and you may want to think about renting a vehicle in AZ with an AZ plate...I will too if I draw. ;) :D ;)

I don't think that a letter writing campaign would do any good, unless it is associated with some high profile magazines/groups. The only way hunters would get their attention is to hit their pocketbook. But that won't happen, too many people are too selfish. They all want their big buck/bull and to hell with everyone else.
Just out of curiousity, as I haven't followed this suit, what is USO's objection?

That the NR tags are capped, and they don't think they should be?


That Outfitters (ie..USO) should get special allocations?

If it is the cap, why whould we not all want the cap removed, so us out of staters can draw all the tags for those easy 400+ Arizona Bulls???

If it is the outfitter question, I agree, screw USO and the rest of the greedy outfitters.
Questions from customers about the Montoya court decision and the fall draw

Wildlife News
July 15, 2004

When will I know if I got drawn?

The Arizona Game and Fish Department will keep hunters informed by posting news about the fall draw on its Web site. The Arizona Game and Fish Commission will hold a special telephone meeting Friday, July 16, and will decide how to proceed with the draw. The department will post the commission’s decision on its Web site, so check back here in the afternoon. It will be the fastest way to get information.

What about the draw results for sheep, buffalo and the other species?

If you put in for bighorn sheep, buffalo, antelope, turkey or javelina you are not affected by the ruling. Although the 10-percent cap does apply to bighorn sheep and buffalo, the lawsuit didn’t challenge that cap, so the court didn’t include those species in its ruling.

Will the draw results for sheep and other species be posted separately?

We cannot say yet. We have to wait for the commission to get more information at its meeting tomorrow, then wait for a decision. The department will post the information on our Web site as soon as we get it. The Web site is the best place to check for the latest information.

Will the court ruling affect the hunting season?

The change in the draw will not affect or shorten the hunting season.

Will permit tags go in the mail on July 23?

The commission has ordered that permit tags be in the mail by July 23. The only way that could change is if the commission votes to change the date.

We’ll know more after the commission meets Friday, July 16. At that meeting, the commission will be briefed on its options and is expected to vote on how to direct the department to proceed. We will keep hunters informed by posting all news about the fall draw on our Web site as soon as it becomes available.

What is the commission doing about the ruling? Will they challenge it in court?

The Arizona Game and Fish Commission plans to discuss the long-term effects of the ruling and how the department should respond at its August meeting in Flagstaff. That meeting will be held August 13 on the Northern Arizona University campus. The agenda for that meeting will be posted on the Web site as soon as it’s finalized.

Did the court case delay draw results this year?

No, the draw process was actually right on schedule until the court ruling came out. When the ruling came out, the judge required the Arizona Game and Fish Department to immediately stop applying the 10-percent cap and he also ruled that any actions related to the cap were “null and void.”

Is the department going to appeal the decision?

The Game and Fish Commission will discuss the long-term impact of the court decision and its response at its meeting in Flagstaff August 13-14.
Buzz thats a good idea, hunters are not going to be in a good mood here in az for a while.

I am guessing alot of out of state guides and hunters are going to have problems

Buzz, with Wy. plates you won't be in too much trouble, but I've got Calif. plates :eek:
Gess I better leave my pink camos at home !

I just surfed around to half a dz hunting sites and this is really stirring up some big popo.
I wonder if there was a way we could all get togather and tell Taulman & Co. what we think of them ?
Maby an E-mail & letter writing campain to anyone who hunts with them, or magazine wrtiers who promote them ? Just a thought.
Heres a few things to keep in mind.
1, Calling the AZ F&G to complain like other are suggesting is lame.... They have a court ruling to deal with your comments dont mean squat to them or the judge at this point. Dont waste thier time as they have enough to do at this time. Let them get the draw done so whoever does get a tag has enough time to arrange the vacation/leave time from work. remember, this is a court ruleing and your complaints will not change that, nor can the F&G because of your opinion.
2. the Nonres hunters are not your enemy here. Dont be talking about vandalizing trucks with nonres plates and other crap, its big money grubbers looking to gain a larger share of outfitting stakes in another state that helped bring this on, along with AZF&G's inability to come to a middle ground that made both sides happy to blame. Because of AZ's costly bonus point rule thier (USO)tag drawing service suffered in AZ. To get around the bonus point ordeal they pushed for more tags instead. God I hope they dont swindle some outfitter preference out of AZ like they did in NM in some under the table deal.
3. Talking about raising nonres tags sky high to combat this will only bring on more lawsuites of discrimination. Trust me, if its bad for USO it will be fought.
I have no idea what the solution is but it seems we need to wait until the F&G decides to appeal. dont bother them too much now, they have to deal with this ruling and get the draw done.
'Gunner- It's for removing the cap like in NM. I agree that for me it's good as I don't plan on living in AZ, but what other states would have to follow suit? Just imagine how much harder that Owyhee (sp?) muley tag will be if Utards(I can say that b/c I live here) have the same chance to draw as you!
Heres where things stand at this time: During executive session the comm was able to speak to Judge Bloomfields office and he agreed to hold a special hearing Monday,July 19 At 10:00 am AZ time to consider a temporary injuction. Then the commision will hold a public meeting Monday July 19 @noon in the Same building at the fairgrounds.

Also,the dept stated they will post the results for all other species not affected by this no later than July 20
I was at part of the meeting today (during lunch, actually). The first hour. I sat next to two Associated Press. I may go Monday too.

I will say that it was SRO and the public was heard loud and clear. It was also brutally hot as the 2 1/2 ton A/C was not keeping up to the Arizona Monsoon and mirror temperance this afternoon. People were still deep in line to address the Commish's whem I headed back to work.

This lawsuit may effect most all you hunters out there, with this interpretation of intersate commerce. Many states are far more restrictive than AZ. I would not be surprised if this does end back up back in D.C.

I know many of you have been watching this litigation for a while. The rest of you should.

How green is justice anyway?