B & C Study - 96% Poachers Get Away

[RealMuddyboots]

The study claims this results in $1.4B loss to States.

"Roughly 4% of poaching cases are detected, according to the Boone and Crockett Club (B&C). That means up to 96% of poachers get away with it."

Sonofagun!

"Too much land, not enough Game Wardens." So does this cost analysis provide enough data to hire more?

"Poaching is grossly under-reported, because the illegal wildlife killing happens in vast areas, where wildlife agents are few and far between"

"The general public might not know enough to distinguish between ethical hunting and illegal poaching, he said, so it's vital for hunters to demonstrate that they're willing to step up and help catch poachers, he said."

Educate the public with PSA's?

Do hunters need to report more suspicious observations?

Increase fines and penalties such it would become a financial decision to poach? I am ALL in on that!

Increase tip rewards?

What do you think? I think this study is probably on low side IMO.

New Study Reveals 96% Of Poachers In U.S. Get Away With It, Costing $1.4 Billion​

In a new study released this week, the Boone and Crockett Club, one of the nation’s top hunting organizations, reports that 96% of poachers get away with…

cowboystatedaily.com

Boone and Crockett Club Research Identifies Dark Figure and Conservation Cost of Poaching​

At a press conference held in Washington, DC, today, the Boone and Crockett Club announced the findings of the most comprehensive research project on poaching in this country.

www.boone-crockett.org

 

[Nick87]

What do you think? I think this study is probably on low side IMO.

Id say the study is a lot closer than you think, ime.

 

[elkhuntinfool78]

It is really disgusting but can't say I'm surprised. I wish that penalties were much harsher. I mean if they started actually putting people in jail and tacked on fines that would make a person gasp I think it would definitely have a positive effect on the amount of poaching that happens.

Much too often people get away with a slap on the wrist and I don't understand why.

This is why I hope they literally throw the book at Lampers ( assuming he's guilty) and make a major example there. Seeing someone that is in the public eye to the extent he is get prosecuted to the full extent could make a lot of people think twice before doing the same.

This kind of thing gets me pretty heated up, after all poachers are literally stealing our natural resources out from under us without much consequence imo

 

[Dan O]

It's time for all the hunting groups to band together and lobby congress to increase penalties with minimum mandatory jail time for any offense that crosses state lines. Each new offense ad's time to the sentences. The same message should be brought to each state legislature to increase minimums to the minor offenses. Increase fines and add jail time plus forfeiture of the tools used in the commission of the crime i.e. firearms, vehicle.

In today's world monetary fines are a joke and to some it's like paying a parking ticket. They would think twice if they had to forfeit their freedom for 6 months or more. It's time to put the bite back into the penalty's.

 

[seeth07]

I don't think it has a lot to do with not enough game wardens. This was a broad study in areas with large private landownership and it's that fact that makes it tough to do much on it beyond education and teaching kids the right morale ways.

I also wonder what they defined poaching as. I didn't see it really fully defined. To me I think there is a big difference between the aftermath of an accident and an intentional action. We all have made a mistake hunting and fishing and broken a law if you have been in the outdoors long enough. That isnt costing the states billions. Intentionally going out and taking game/fish without a license and especially when out of season certainly is

 

[Nick87]

also wonder what they defined poaching as. I didn't see it really fully defined. To me I think there is a big difference between the aftermath of an accident and an intentional action. We all have made a mistake hunting and fishing and broken a law if you have been in the outdoors long enough. That isnt costing the states billions. Intentionally going out and taking game/fish without a license and especially when out of season certainly is

That was my thought as well.

 

[seeth07]

That was my thought as well.

If poaching was defined as clearly intentional taking of game and fish without a license or out of season, I bet that number significantly goes down. Even in areas with heavy private land ownership I just don't believe that there could be that many bad apples out there

 

[cgasner1]

It's time for all the hunting groups to band together and lobby congress to increase penalties with minimum mandatory jail time for any offense that crosses state lines. Each new offense ad's time to the sentences. The same message should be brought to each state legislature to increase minimums to the minor offenses. Increase fines and add jail time plus forfeiture of the tools used in the commission of the crime i.e. firearms, vehicle.

In today's world monetary fines are a joke and to some it's like paying a parking ticket. They would think twice if they had to forfeit their freedom for 6 months or more. It's time to put the bite back into the penalty's.

May sound kinda silly but I wonder if fines have kept up with inflation or if it’s the same cost it was 15 years ago. It’s too bad a bunch of influencers couldn’t push for stricter fines.

 

[lastlight]

I’ve always said there needs to be some kind of citizen arrest program where hunters and train and get licensed to cite game law breakers in the field. Pipe dream I know.

Hunting orgs aren’t going to lobby to change anything, they depend on 96% of their pro staff not getting caught to produce more content.

 

[406dn]

My speculation is the number is close enough, to the scope of the problem. When you are hunting, most often there is no witness to your activity. If you decide to poach, I'd think that being fairly certain there are no eye witnesses, is a primary concern.

It's been my opinion for a long long time that hunting does not build character, nearly as much as it reveals it.

The general public is hardly concerned about poaching. In Montana alone there are several examples of successful politicians not following game laws very well.

I have called the tip line a few times, not too certain if it did much good.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Increase the animal value as non negotiable fine so even if a judge wants to slap wrist, the total fine will be substantial.

Maybe go the environmental route where someone gets % of fine.

I agree it can turn into a show.

I have reported a few deer related violations but never "saw" anything on hunts out west. However, a shot at 1:00AM on a moonlit night we heard in our drop camp. Could have been a scare shot from someone else's camp but outfitter said nobody else up there so WTH was that?

Is it really as bad as stated? IDK

 

[EastTNHunter]

Problem in my state is the judges. Wildlife officers can do their jobs (unfortunately the agency has lost a lot of credibility lately, so that’s not a given) and arrest the perps, but when it goes to court the local judges call it a victimless crime and throw out the charges. Wildlife officers are sometimes even told to leave people alone because they aren’t hurting anything. And I know of more than one instance where this has happened

 

[one ate E grain]

There is an attitude amongst some that some forms of poaching are simply not following the exact rule, kind of like purchasing personal items on your business credit card so you pay smaller taxes.

Private land out of season hunting is the most egregious here, also shooting an elk for your brother who has a tag but doesn't hunt.

It's similar to a lot of things in that being honest is something personal, and I think more people need to think of it that way. Yes we can break game laws with little risk, but what is the sense of it. Beef is cheap at the processor. You can probably buy mounted trophies cheaper than you can pay to have them taxidermied. Game laws are made by hunters (except nowadays lol) Game laws are agreed upon rules we all thought up. Breaking game laws is unfair to others and also degrades one's own sense of fairness. The job of not poaching is up to us.

 

[El Jason]

My opinion and thoughts only, not backed up by any data.

The judicial system is dropping the ball on wildlife crimes, and crimes in general. Many don’t get prosecuted, or get dismissed or deferred, and many simply get lost in the system with nothing to show for them.

The huge problem is lack of reporting. All too often, people know about wildlife crimes that are occurring, but do not turn the offenders in. They either “don’t want to be involved“ or “it’s none of my business“, and they simply look the other way. Then, when the person finally gets caught they’ll say “oh yeah, they’ve been doing this for years“.

I believe it’s an urban legend how many wildlife violations are a mistake. This is a commonly parroted theme, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that there are actually a rather small percentage that are true mistakes. People don’t just forget to tag their deer. They don’t just forget to cut the dates out. They don’t forget that it’s after hours or before hours. They don’t forget, they cross a fence and are on private land. They don’t forget the other side of the road is a different unit they don’t have a permit for. I think this is a bunk excuse, and really has no basis.

 

[Nick87]

The huge problem is lack of reporting. All too often, people know about wildlife crimes that are occurring, but do not turn the offenders in. They either “don’t want to be involved“ or “it’s none of my business“, and they simply look the other way. Then, when the person finally gets caught they’ll say “oh yeah, they’ve been doing this for years“.

I believe it’s an urban legend how many wildlife violations are a mistake. This is a commonly parroted theme, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that there are actually a rather small percentage that are true mistakes. People don’t just forget to tag their deer. They don’t just forget to cut the dates out. They don’t forget that it’s after hours or before hours. They don’t forget, they cross a fence and are on private land. They don’t forget the other side of the road is a different unit they don’t have a permit for. I think this is a bunk excuse, and really has no basis.

This 100% .

Besides your thoughts I could back all of that up by first hand accounts. Let's just say I was cultured at a young age.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

I think that the wardens are doing their jobs for sure, but it might be more of a culture thing. Folks don't report violations often including me.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Things I observe and based on my experience every fall in MT and ND:

1. The judicial system does not prioritize wildlife violations. Fed prosecutors and State’s Attorneys are reluctant to even spend time on these cases, because they rarely go anywhere, and they are considered “small potatoes” next to drugs, child abuse, human trafficking, etc.

2. Trespass, hunting without permission, wanton waste, over bagging, and hunting without a license are rampant. And not accidental. The brazenness of folks when caught in the act is mind-boggling. People literally do not care.

3. There are not enough wardens to respond to all the complaints. Landowners call us to complain all the time, because the wardens are over an hour away in two different directions or tied up with other complaints. We have no LE authority nor jurisdiction and do what we can, but the vast majority just drive off into the sunset long before anyone can get there.

 

[brockel]

This is why I hope they literally throw the book at Lampers ( assuming he's guilty) and make a major example there. Seeing someone that is in the public eye to the extent he is get prosecuted to the full extent could make a lot of people think twice before doing the same.

Not saying they shouldn’t throw the book at him but the average hunter doesn’t have a clue who Lampers is so it’s not like they’ve have any idea he got the max for what he did.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

What if animal values were upped to a value that were off the charts?
Grizzly - $250K
Black Bear - $100K
Elk - $100K
Mule Deer - $50K
Whitetail - $50K
These values are just potential examples not a reflection their value to me.

If the animal is considered trophy status, multiplier plus permanent loss of license.

Now I realize the ramifications where this could result in another type of excrement show but there has to be something done to make "deliberate and planned" poaching not worth the financial risk. I know mistakes happen but there has to be differential handling and no clue how? Maybe self reporting eliminates the harsh penalties? IDK Simple tag mistakes same category? But dammit there has to be a better process to punish those who deliberately poach.

 

[jpc01101]

What if animal values were upped to a value that were off the charts?
Grizzly - $250K
Black Bear - $100K
Elk - $100K
Mule Deer - $50K
Whitetail - $50K
These values are just potential examples not a reflection their value to me.

If the animal is considered trophy status, multiplier plus permanent loss of license.

Now I realize the ramifications where this could result in another type of excrement show but there has to be something done to make "deliberate and planned" poaching not worth the financial risk. I know mistakes happen but there has to be differential handling and no clue how? Maybe self reporting eliminates the harsh penalties? IDK Simple tag mistakes same category? But dammit there has to be a better process to punish those who deliberately poach.

I think about the guy and his kid in Wyoming a couple years ago, kid shot a griz they reported. Think he was fined $10k and narrowly avoided some jail time. FOr most families in the US $10k is a HUGE amount to have to come up with, sure there are a few that would scoff at it but that has to be less than 1%.