B & C on Long Range Shooting

[JoseCuervo]

Your comments are exactly what I am talking about. Anti high fence, anti AR-15, and anti baiting all in one sentence. Thanks for giving us an example of the political extremist views of hunting from a Montana perspective. Funny how you dont' want to discuss the high fence elk breeding operations in Montana but do want to change the subject to McDonalds of all things. Very predictable.

Well since the discussion has stopped making any sense at this point it's' probably time for me to stop our discussion. Please throw a few more one liner insults toward me so we can wrap it up and move on. Thanks for enlightening us.

I am sure all the Montana boys will be happy to learn that I speak for them.... I should get back up there soon, I am guessing more than one of them will share a Keystone Light with me...

You want to discuss high fence elk breeding operations in Montana? Great, start a thread and edjumacate us all on the process, and what your opinion is of the problem/issue and your solution.

Not sure why you think that topic belongs in a thread on long range shooting, as your "extremist" desire to shoot deer with AR-15's inside a high-fence operation has nothing to do with the thread.

If you want to bring this discussion back on topic, B&C has a statement on some questionable ethics, and that is a good thing. As technology moves forward, B&C will be forced to decide what is still ethical, and what is not.

We as hunters do not need some line of BS about needing to stick together as once we lose our "rights" to shoot 40 rounds of .223 out of an AR at some penned up deer standing under a corn flinger, all of hunting is lost.

Sorry, but that ain't a "war" worth fighting.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hunter unity is a myth. Just go to any G&F meeting on season setting to find out how divergent we are.

 

[roadhunter]

I am sure all the Montana boys will be happy to learn that I speak for them.... I should get back up there soon, I am guessing more than one of them will share a Keystone Light with me...

You want to discuss high fence elk breeding operations in Montana? Great, start a thread and edjumacate us all on the process, and what your opinion is of the problem/issue and your solution.

Not sure why you think that topic belongs in a thread on long range shooting, as your "extremist" desire to shoot deer with AR-15's inside a high-fence operation has nothing to do with the thread.

If you want to bring this discussion back on topic, B&C has a statement on some questionable ethics, and that is a good thing. As technology moves forward, B&C will be forced to decide what is still ethical, and what is not.

We as hunters do not need some line of BS about needing to stick together as once we lose our "rights" to shoot 40 rounds of .223 out of an AR at some penned up deer standing under a corn flinger, all of hunting is lost.

Sorry, but that ain't a "war" worth fighting.

Wow. You just keep proving my point for me. Thanks.

I don't think you realize that your way of thinking is the extremist fringe opinion, not the mainstream way of looking at hunting. There are more hunters in states that allow corn flingers, high fence, crossbows, etc... than not. The sooner you figure this out the better. If you want to trash and bash those people that is fine but understand that if you remove them along with NRA supporters, high fence hunting, hound hunters, long range hunters, etc.. all that's left is an extremely small # of folks who believe your way of hunting is the only way to hunt. In essence you will have become a fringe minority extremist hunting group who opposes most other types of hunting and most hunting organizations.

You are to hunting what Westboro Baptist Church is to religion. Just a small group of complete wacko's who oppose most other types of hunting and are proud of it. Keep up the great work.

 

[roadhunter]

Hunter unity is a myth. Just go to any G&F meeting on season setting to find out how divergent we are.

That might be true in Montana but I dont' think it is the case in some other states. I've lived in a few other states and can't really ever remember hearing about hunters being so divided like they are in a few of the western states. Seems that the folks in Montana are constantly fighting political battles about something related to hunting.

Any idea why?

 

[RobG]

That might be true in Montana but I dont' think it is the case in some other states. I've lived in a few other states and can't really ever remember hearing about hunters being so divided like they are in a few of the western states. Seems that the folks in Montana are constantly fighting political battles about something related to hunting.

Any idea why?

Roadhunter - it is pretty dumb to expect us "hunters" to adopt every new practice someone comes up with in the name of unity. They are the ones dividing us because of their questionable practices in the eyes of non-hunters. If you want hunters to be united, make all the yahoos and their canned hunts and half-mile shots change, not us.

I should also state that, when it comes to the important things, the division between hunters and even ranchers is pretty small, which is not to say that some groups are posing as hunting groups with a different agenda.

 

[roadhunter]

Roadhunter - it is pretty dumb to expect us "hunters" to adopt every new practice someone comes up with in the name of unity. They are the ones dividing us because of their questionable practices in the eyes of non-hunters. If you want hunters to be united, make all the yahoos and their canned hunts and half-mile shots change.

I should also state that, when it comes to the important things, the division between hunters and even ranchers is pretty small, which is not to say that some groups are posing as hunting groups with a different agenda.

I don't think you realize how your statements like calling people who take long range shots "yahoos" are simply confirming my points. The funny thing is that people talk about taking long range shots on hunts posted on this site pretty regularly and you have not called any of them "yahoos" for some reason. Wonder why?

So essentially you are saying "It's them, not us, that is the problem". That is pretty funny, reminds me of my kids fighting.

As far as hunters and ranchers being divided that seems to be pretty obvious after spending time on this site. Between the bison topic, corner crossing, disease transmission, MOGA, etc... it's obvious that Hunters and Ranchers in Montana are divided. I don't think that is the case in other states like Kansas for example.

 

[RobG]

I don't think you realize how your statements like calling people who take long range shots "yahoos" are simply confirming my points. The funny thing is that people talk about taking long range shots on hunts posted on this site pretty regularly and you have not called any of them "yahoos" for some reason. Wonder why?

So essentially you are saying "It's them, not us, that is the problem". That is pretty funny, reminds me of my kids fighting.

As far as hunters and ranchers being divided that seems to be pretty obvious after spending time on this site. Between the bison topic, corner crossing, disease transmission, MOGA, etc... it's obvious that Hunters and Ranchers in Montana are divided. I don't think that is the case in other states like Kansas for example.

Well, you do remind me of a kid fighting. I think my point was made clear enough for the people that matter. Carry on.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That might be true in Montana but I dont' think it is the case in some other states. I've lived in a few other states and can't really ever remember hearing about hunters being so divided like they are in a few of the western states. Seems that the folks in Montana are constantly fighting political battles about something related to hunting.

Any idea why?

You're not paying attention to much, then. Deer baiting in Michigan, antler restrictions in PA, et are all hot topics of conversation. Public lands were a huge topic in Alabama a year or two ago.

Archery hunters fight to keep crossbows out in a lot of eastern states, purists don't want rifles in urban locations, favoring archery, etc.

The only thing we're united on is that we prefer to kill what we eat.

 

[roadhunter]

Well, you do remind me of a kid fighting. I think my point was made clear enough for the people that matter. Carry on.

So now you have told me I'm dumb and I don't matter. LOL. You might think that you are showing me up but all you are doing is embarrassing yourself by acting like a complete jerk for no reason.

Here is your exact quite about dividing hunters. They are the ones dividing us That reminds me of my kids when I ask what's going on and I get a "he started it" from the back seat. That is why I said your response reminds me of my kids.

The "people that matter" comment also confirms my point. You look down you nose at other people as if you are better than them and "they dont' matter" . Thanks for proving my point, again.

 

[roadhunter]

You're not paying attention to much then. Deer baiting in Michigan, antler restrictions in PA, et are all hot topics of conversation. Public lands were a huge topic in Alabama a year or two ago.

Archery hunters fight to keep crossbows out in a lot of eastern states, purists don't want rifles in urban locations, favoring archery, etc.

The only thing we're united on is that we prefer to kill what we eat.

You know exactly what I meant and you know darn well the number of political fights that revolve around hunting are much higher in Montana than in many other states. You guys are constantly fighting about everything from wolves to bison and marching to the capitol and filming Randy meeting with politicians. Pretending it doesn't happen does not change anything as we have all seen the topics discussed on this site.

I'm not even sure your last statement is true. When I guided I noticed that few would actually take their meat home with them and some that did only gave it away or fed it to the dogs. All they really want is the horns and cape for a mount.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You know exactly what I meant and you know darn well the number of political fights that revolve around hunting are much higher in Montana than in many other states. You guys are constantly fighting about everything from wolves to bison and marching to the capitol and filming Randy meeting with politicians. Pretending it doesn't happen does not change anything as we have all seen the topics discussed on this site.

I'm not even sure your last statement is true. When I guided I noticed that few would actually take their meat home with them and some that did only gave it away or fed it to the dogs. All they really want is the horns and cape for a mount.

Maybe one day the GOP & outfitters will quit attacking Montana sportsmen & our wildlife, public access and public lands, but it's a pretty juicy target for them.

As to the last part, fine: we can't agree on anything as a community then. So, thanks for proving my point that unity is a myth.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Maybe one day the GOP & outfitters will quit attacking Montana sportsmen & our wildlife, public access and public lands, but it's a pretty juicy target for them.

As to the last part, fine: we can't agree on anything as a community then. So, thanks for proving my point that unity is a myth.

I was once generous enough to teach lesson to an Outfitter that left his camp equipment on the mountain one winter after he packed out. Assuming that having .338 holes in his 4 camp stoves and all his ropes and corrall wires in 6' pieces served to remind him not to leave his equipment on My Public Lands. :hump:

 

[roadhunter]

Maybe one day the GOP & outfitters will quit attacking Montana sportsmen & our wildlife, public access and public lands, but it's a pretty juicy target for them.

As to the last part, fine: we can't agree on anything as a community then. So, thanks for proving my point that unity is a myth.

So from your perspective it's the Republicans and MOGA that are the problem in Montana.

Actually I didn't prove your point, I eat what I kill, so I actually agree with what you said. The hunters who didn't take their meat home to eat after a hunt are the ones who proved we can't agree on even eating what we kill.

I think if we want to figure out who is dividing hunters it's pretty simple. The people who think the only way to hunt is the way they do it and everybody else who hunts differently is just plain wrong/dumb/yahoos/etc. Hunting Elitist?

 

[roadhunter]

I was once generous enough to teach lesson to an Outfitter that left his camp equipment on the mountain one winter after he packed out. Assuming that having .338 holes in his 4 camp stoves and all his ropes and corrall wires in 6' pieces served to remind him not to leave his equipment on My Public Lands. :hump:

Once again confirming that you are to hunters what Westboro Baptist Church is to religion.

Basically an embarrassment to all hunters when you do stuff like what you describe doing. Shooting outfitters gear, shooting ranchers water tanks, etc.... is not acceptable and makes all of us look bad when you do stuff like that.

 

[Southwind]

Kumbaya my lord Kumbaya, alright everybody hold hands and join in with me....ready? Kumbaya my Lord Kumbaya..........and to think I was going to comment on the B&C position.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Kumbaya my lord Kumbaya, alright everybody hold hands and join in with me....ready? Kumbaya my Lord Kumbaya..........and to think I was going to comment on the B&C position.

I'll break bread with ya!

B&C was correct in their statement. Good for them.

 

[TheShootist.41]

Trying to talk sense to a Montana proglodyte is a waste of time, effort and air. They all believe there is only Montana and no one else matters. (A true progressive attitude! ) Elitist demonicrats!

 

[roadhunter]

I'll break bread with ya!

B&C was correct in their statement. Good for them.

So if B&C was correct then what can we do about outdoor companies that promote this long range hunting that has become a problem?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Well, it's an ethical dilema. I can choose not to shoot beyond my comfort level and encourage others to do the same. We can publicly shame those who do take unethical shots, but I don't think that gets us anywhere.

About the only thing you can do in this specific situation is to abide by your own ethical standards. Otherwise you'd be looking at banning electronics on scopes, etc (which if I were the Almighty white hunter, I'd say only a german #3 post or basic Leupold duplex would be allowed, but I'm almost old fashioned).

Other than that, write in to shows expressing your concern in a respectful manner, same to those same companies that sponsor the show. Luckily, this is America and you have that right.

 

[The Hedgehog]

One thing's for sure, Montana is The Last Best Place and some would like to see it stay that way.

roadhunter, just curious - what part about B&C's position don't you agree with?