Attack on the Feds independence

[BigHornRam]

Riddle me this, why were Immigration agents engaging a person with such force of action, for what looks like a traffic violation in the first place?

ICE 100% screams small peepee energy. Every "take down" has the intensity of a high-profile dangerous criminal raid. They shot Renee Good because they didn't even have time to think of WTF was going on, let alone what she was doing. The thing is, they're supposed to the trained professionals who can handle and de-escalate stressful situations, not the completely untrained Renee Good. They are 100% looking for a fight and instigating strong reactions from the public.

They had been following ice and harrasing them all day. They were parked in the middle of the road to stop the agents from going to their next stop. ICE wouldn't have to have triple the man power, if the local officials would cooperate with them. Stop the paid agitators from making their job impossible to do.

 

[mevertsen]

She was clearly told to get out of the car. She backed up, and stepped on the gas, hitting the ICE agent. Happened in a split second. Same agent had been drug by a car earlier. I'm not going to second guess whether or not he should have used lethal force. You guys can if you want.

Heres the bad part.

He was not in front of the car to begin with.

He put himself in harm's way, by moving to the front of of an occupied vehicle, to accomplish what?

Apprehend a misdemeanor suspect?

Look up 10 deadly errors.

Basic cop rules.

All they had to do was let her go, grab the plated, and ler the locals deal with the bs obstructing charge.
Plenty of times ive had to just let stuff go when I was working.

Also, had she not had the wheels turned to the right, her car wouldn't have ended up where it did.

It also did look like the cop was fiddle dicking around with something rather than just simply getting and staying out of the way and dealing with her later.

Was it murder? Manslaughter? Maybe. So many intricacies to the law regarding intent, events leading up to the encounter we don't all know about, etc.

Another issue I saw is that for sure, his last 2 shots were fired while he was on the driver side of the car, not in front. The first was fired POSSIBLY when he may have been out of the way. Really hard to break down with it all happening so fast.

But generally once the threat has stopped or moved on, justified deadly force goes away.

Him moving in front of the car was the final catalyst though, IMO.

Should he be a cop any more?

Absolutely not.

And a question for those here.

Would you step in front of a car that was occupied and in motion or ready to go in motion?

 

[406dn]

They had been following ice and harrasing them all day. They were parked in the middle of the road to stop the agents from going to their next stop. ICE wouldn't have to have triple the man power, if the local officials would cooperate with them. Stop the paid agitators from making their job impossible to do.

Would you just stop with the nonsense that somehow the protesters are paid agitators. Since the Jan 6 riot turned violent, how much were these agitators paid?

I've been to two no kings rallies on my own dime, just like every other person there.

 

[SaskHunter]

They had been following ice and harrasing them all day.

"All day" from school drop-off to 09:37am!!!

They were parked in the middle of the road to stop the agents from going to their next stop.

She literally moved out of the way. At any rate, this was a traffic violation enforceable by actual LEO, not Immigration agents. Why not call the boys in blue and ACTUALLY cooperate with them?

ICE wouldn't have to have triple the man power, if the local officials would cooperate with them.

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump and his ICE-stapo with a fraction of the man-power. Local LEO should also 100% enforce the law, to include laws ICE officers are breaking.

Stop the paid agitators from making their job impossible to do.

Prove it.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The stark contrast between ideological perspectives reflects the national divisiveness that sickens and gravely disapponts this old Veteran who is saddened by the mess which seems contrary to those whose names are etched onto the Vietnam Memorial Wall who sacrificed their lives and hoped for more for their nation.

Consider that during the Vietnam era and "George Floyd" era such heated protests did occur. What is different is the violence perpetrated by an army of federal agents in the name of immigration enforcement, using inhumane tactics not previously witnessed even in the quelling of violent rioters. Those tactics seem contrary to even the strongest protocol of law enforcement prior to this debacle.

 

[brymoore]

They had been following ice and harrasing them all day. They were parked in the middle of the road to stop the agents from going to their next stop. ICE wouldn't have to have triple the man power, if the local officials would cooperate with them. Stop the paid agitators from making their job impossible to do.

Fine. Arrest all of them. No reason to shoot.

 

[BigHornRam]

"All day" from school drop-off to 09:37am!!!


She literally moved out of the way. At any rate, this was a traffic violation enforceable by actual LEO, not Immigration agents. Why not call the boys in blue and ACTUALLY cooperate with them?



Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump and his ICE-stapo with a fraction of the man-power. Local LEO should also 100% enforce the law, to include laws ICE officers are breaking.



Prove it.

Minnesota activist who organized church storming earned over $1M running nonprofit | Fox News https://share.google/tPo5KLI9kqAgf0rie

 

[Irrelevant]

What exactly is the threshold for death?
Is it not listening to orders?
Is it trying to leave?

I'm generally pretty sympathetic to LEOs' use of lethal force. I know I'm pretty terrible under pressure, and really struggle to fault them in the heat of the moment for "mistakes", but the flip side of that coin is that LEOs need to, and should have a ton of training to keep them out of those situations to begin with. And that is clearly a failure of that officer.

I also just want to point out, that we have active and former LEOs commenting on this thread, people who've actually walked in those shoes. It's odd why so many disagree with those people.

 

[Carnage2011]

Not to derail the criminal investigation on here, but what’s the status of the Fed’s independence? I haven’t seen or heard much lately..

 

[406dn]

The stark contrast between ideological perspectives reflects the national divisiveness that sickens and gravely disapponts this old Veteran who is saddened by the mess which seems contrary to those whose names are etched onto the Vietnam Memorial Wall who sacrificed their lives and hoped for more for their nation.

Any thread this long, has a few tangents, so I'll take one.

My wife and I attended my niece's wedding outside of DC, fall, before last. We stayed a few extra days to tour DC. Everything was moving, none more than the Vietnam war memorial. A young man, a class ahead of me, died there while serving.

I found his name on the wall. It is so sobering to see column after column of names, engraved into the black granite. I'm glad you made it back, and have lived a good life. So many have carried invisible scars since their service.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Minnesota activist who organized church storming earned over $1M running nonprofit | Fox News https://share.google/tPo5KLI9kqAgf0rie

It's one thing to read an anecdotal story of such an activist on the web and be appalled. We all should be appalled.
However, to then expand that as a generality applied to all Minnesotans or to those who participate in protests is skewed logic and reflects a vile bias based on divisive ideology, with a will to use every little skewed illogical conclusion to attack the "they".

Knock it off!

 

[BigHornRam]

Not to derail the criminal investigation on here, but what’s the status of the Fed’s independence? I haven’t seen or heard much lately..

Fed Reserve to hold rates through March: Reuters https://share.google/akbXPaA1rU06jUt4I

 

[Forkyfinder]

Not to derail the criminal investigation on here, but what’s the status of the Fed’s independence? I haven’t seen or heard much lately..

Redirect Notice

JP has surprising support according to this polling in my opinion. I bet the DOJ drops the case.

 

[Bonasababy]

Why are you saying the press secretary was wrong? That's so mean
Hard to keep up with the stupid.

View attachment 399479

Not the press secretary, Trump himself was on video talking about ICELAND. The assumption is he meant Greenland, either way another visible indication of loss of mental faculties. His news conference before Davos was incoherent and confusing too...

 

[BuzzH]

ICE wouldn't have to have triple the man power, if the local officials would cooperate with them.

This is a curious statement and I'll assume it to be true without doing my usual research.

If that's the case, why did other administrations do a better job with 1/3 the manpower and money?

Seems the current administration is doing a horrific job, to the point that it seems intuitive to believe this operation is a clear and perfect example of waste, fraud, and abuse. To go a step further, I used to believe the administration wanted to SHRINK government via slashing employees and associated budgets. What happened to that belief?

Its almost as if there is an agenda...almost, and that the agenda and ideology can be ignored when it's convenient to do so.

 

[Bonasababy]

I could just imagine how all this would be going over if the ATF was given money and a whole bunch of new quickly trained agents were sent out into the country. Let's just say they were detaining anyone that looked liked they might own a gun and figuring it out later whether they were all legal or not.

Read some good news related to this real fear today...

Staunch libertarians and parties across the country associated with them...traditionally strong republican voters...are so alarmed they are publicly taking positions against the administration and ICE actions...using this same scary precedent.

 

[BigHornRam]

It's one thing to read an anecdotal story of such an activist on the web and be appalled. We all should be appalled.
However, to then expand that as a generality applied to all Minnesotans or to those who participate in protests is skewed logic and reflects a vile bias based on divisive ideology, with a will to use every little skewed illogical conclusion to attack the "they".

Knock it off!

I didn't say all Minnesotans or all activists are getting paid. The ones that are doing it 24/7 are. A cousin of mine from Minnesota was a paid protester years ago when he was young. He figured out soon enough, that was a bad idea.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The ones that are doing it 24/7 are. A cousin of mine from Minnesota was a paid protester years ago when he was young. He figured out soon enough, that was a bad idea.

There you go again ... expanding your cousin's bad idea to "ones that are doing it 24/7". "24/7" does not even make sense.
Respectfully, you and I have two very different processes of using the constraint of logical reasoning. I have to recognize that. Perhaps yours differs from others here too and that is why you get so much push back.

 

[Bonasababy]

This a curious statement and I'll assume it to be true without doing my usual research.

If that's the case, why did other administrations do a better job with 1/3 the manpower and money?

Seems the current administration is doing a horrific job, to the point that it seems intuitive to believe this operation is clear and perfect example of waste, fraud, and abuse. To go a step further, I used to believe the administration wanted to SHRINK government via slashing employees and associated budgets. What happened to that belief?

Its almost as if there is an agenda...almost, and that the agenda and ideology can be ignored when it's convenient to do so.

A former high level Federal enforcement official on the news this morning said they are violating so many laws, their own policies, and their own training...that its obvious they are making up excuses and ways to defend their rapid and strong deviation from accepted and legal operations.

 

[BigHornRam]

There you go again ... expanding your cousin's bad idea to "ones that are doing it 24/7". "24/7" does not even make sense.
Respectfully, you and I have two very different processes of using the constraint of logical reasoning. I have to recognize that. Perhaps your differs from others here too and that is why you get so much push back.

How do you pay your bills if you are volunteering 24/7 for a cause? I supposed some are trustfunders that don't have to work, but the rest?