Attack on the Feds independence

[MTGomer]

If everyone here hates our healthcare then it's not good. You don't have to find some "metric" to analyze and compare

Healthcare or health insurance?

I think most of the problems in our system is driven by how healthcare is paid for and who has so much influence over it.

I think that’s what makes our system so hard to fix, with a quasi capitalist system that’s not working that well. But the only proposed solution is one that has proven itself too at least in certain aspects, be worse. Putting less strain on the system is probably the biggest thing we could do, but with 2/3 of the country overweight and plagued with chronic disease, and the largest generation in our country entering their 70s, that probably won’t happen anytime soon so we might as well keep looking for other ideas.


You can call 911 right now and experts in medical triage will rush to your house, and then rush you to a building full of other experts and save your life with the most advanced medical devices and technology in the world or they’ll put you on a helicopter full of life-saving technology and devices and land on the roof of a building that contains a specialist in the exact problem that you’re having.
That’s some pretty good healthcare.

It’s the billing end and how to pay for it that is so messed up it’ll leave you wishing they never came.

 

[SaskHunter]

Over 70% of Canadians have private health insurance to supplement their socialized medical insurance.

This health insurance is through your employer or government (lower incomes or retored folks) and is for medications (which are not inflated), physio, chyro, ambulance rides, etc. This insurance is NOT for general medical treatments or emergency care. Air MEDEVAC is also free in most places. Dental coverage is the same, either through your employer or lower incomes earners or retired folks get the gov't insurance.

Americans that do not have Canadian healthcare view Canadian healthcare a lot higher than my Canadian friends that have it, view it. They told me it’s very bureaucratic and that they cannot get what they want, when they want it. American border city hospital parking lots being full of Canadian plates seems to confirm that. The ones that can afford to, come here to pay cash to get what they want, when they want.

There's always room for improvement and it is not perfect. There are wait times, yes. Americans go abroad for treatment too though, so lets keep that in mind. Also, no one is dying from a treatable illness in Canada because they can't afford it. Is it possible you'll wait 8 hours at the ER with a non life-threatening emergency? Yes, but once you're seen, you're in and will not have to pay for any treatment. You have cancer and lose your job? You get free treatment and employment insurance so you don't have to work through cancer recovery. The entire premise of an extremely popular American show is about a man turning into a drug king pin because of not being able to pay cancer treatments. In Canada, we have shows about hockey players chirping eachother. I'm obviously being facetious, but you get the gist. If you're wealthy or have great coverage, US healthcare is probably great, but for the majority of Americans, it simply sounds horrible. Everyone gets the same treatment here.

@Dougfirtree our millionaires/billionaires do get breaks and there are loopholes, but they definitely pay taxes. Fair share? Likely not!

 

[BuzzH]

Our system of Healthcare is so awesome that the U.S tops one category:

Medical bankruptcy.

#winning.

 

[MTGomer]

@Dougfirtree our millionaires/billionaires do get breaks and there are loopholes, but they definitely pay taxes. Fair share? Likely not!

Doesn’t take much to be a Canadian millionaire these days if measuring with Canadian dollars.



Americans definitely go abroad. When I was in Turkey on my way to go hunting Tajikistan, there were a lot of Americans getting hair plugs. I guess that’s more so cosmetics than it is health but same idea. A lot of American and Canadian snowbirds in AZ go across the Mexican border to Algodones to get dental work done.
I guess it’s quite the industry.

 

[SaskHunter]

It’s just that the wait is measured in months instead of in years.

Four years is 12 times longer than four months

Big difference between cancer treatment and an elective surgery. Everyone recieves immediate life-saving procedures.

I always hear of horror stories regarding wait times but I don't know a single person who's waited that long for a surgery, there has to be something else we're missing. Myself and most people I know, get operated for non life-threatning ailments in about a year. If it can wait, it does wait if waitlists are long, but I've never heard of anyone waiting 4 years for an elective surgery.

 

[BuzzH]

Doesn’t take much to be a Canadian millionaire these days if measuring with Canadian dollars.



Americans definitely go abroad. When I was in Turkey on my way to go hunting Tajikistan, there were a lot of Americans getting hair plugs. I guess that’s more so cosmetics than it is health but same idea. A lot of American and Canadian snowbirds in AZ go across the Mexican border to Algodones to get dental work done.
I guess it’s quite the industry.

Not even in the top half...you can go ahead and put the big #1 foam hand away. Just like most things the average U.S.citizen thinks we're number 1 in everything when we just flat arent.

The Best Healthcare in the World: Country Rankings

Discover the countries with the best healthcare in 2024 and learn about the key factors that make Italy, Singapore, and Iceland top the list.

www.internationalinsurance.com

 

[SaskHunter]

Doesn’t take much to be a Canadian millionaire these days if measuring with Canadian dollars.



Americans definitely go abroad. When I was in Turkey on my way to go hunting Tajikistan, there were a lot of Americans getting hair plugs. I guess that’s more so cosmetics than it is health but same idea. A lot of American and Canadian snowbirds in AZ go across the Mexican border to Algodones to get dental work done.
I guess it’s quite the industry.

Hey man, sounds like you have great coverage and can afford healthcare. Seriously, good for you.

But there are millions of Americans who are not as fortunate as you, so f&ck 'em? Anyway, this tracks given the current state of affairs in the USA and serious lack of this right here:

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

em·pa·thy
/ˈempəTHē/

noun

the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
"he has a total lack of empathy for anybody"

 

[Straight Arrow]

It is with humility and extreme gratitude that I enter this health care / insurance discussion. Having worn the US Army green uniform for over thirty years, both my wife and I are enrolled in Medicare and Tricare, and also VA benefits. This form of socialism relative to health care in the USA is welcome, deeply appreciated, and very efficient.
We have experienced sickness, broken hips and knees, cancer, and other conditions requiring highly expensive health care treatments ... paying only a mere pittance for our insurance.

I am a strong advocate of such coverage and minimal costs being instituted at a national level for all citizens. Sure, we would all likely see higher taxes for such ... but perhaps all the multimillionaires in Congress and their political pals with vast wealth could pay just a smidgen more to help their fellow man and contribute more to the country which has enabled their accumulation of such great wealth!

 

[MTGomer]

Hey man, sounds like you have great coverage and can afford healthcare. Seriously, good for you.

But there are millions of Americans who are not as fortunate as you, so f&ck 'em? Anyway, this tracks given the current state of affairs in the USA and serious lack of this right here:

I don’t think I do actually. I have coverage, but I don’t think it’s that great but I don’t really use it either.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I wish everything that was developed/researched on the back of the American healthcare consumer was included in everyone's analysis.

 

[MTGomer]

It is with humility and extreme gratitude that I enter this health care / insurance discussion. Having worn the US Army green uniform for over thirty years, both my wife and I are enrolled in Medicare and Tricare, and also VA benefits. This form of socialism relative to health care in the USA is welcome, deeply appreciated, and very efficient.
We have experienced sickness, broken hips and knees, cancer, and other conditions requiring highly expensive health care treatments ... paying only a mere pittance for our insurance.

I am a strong advocate of such coverage and minimal costs being instituted at a national level for all citizens. Sure, we would all likely see higher taxes for such ... but perhaps all the multimillionaires in Congress and their political pals with vast wealth could pay just a smidgen more to help their fellow man and contribute more to the country which has enabled their accumulation of such great wealth!

You have more than earned it. Paying for veteran’s healthcare seems like the absolute bare minimum that we should do.
I don’t think you should even have to go to a VA hospital. You should be able to go to anywhere you want and the government should pick up the tab.

 

[SaskHunter]

.

I don’t think I do actually. I have coverage, but I don’t think it’s that great but I don’t really use it either.

I honestly hope you or your family never have to test your coverage. Gotta enjoy our health while we have it.

I'll also say this is the most civil and healthy political debate I've seen on HT in a while so lets keep this up!

 

[MTGomer]

I know this thread is supposed to be about the attack on the feds independence.
I think that attack, along with the attack on Iran, the genocide in Gaza, the attack on Venezuela, the attack on public lands by senate Rs etc. are all kind of a pattern of failures of the Trump administration that a lot of people, even people that voted for him, are not happy about.

I know this is debatable, but it does seem that the one topic that the administration might actually be doing some good is in the health area. I would be a lot more inclined to want to subsidize people‘s health insurance if I was not also subsidizing the foods that are making them sick. Whether it’s subsidies to sugar beet farmers or highly processed sugar laden cereals in the school lunch and breakfast programs, I do not think it is reasonable to ask us to pay to make people sick with bad food and then ask us to also pay for their healthcare.
I know a lot of people will say that those people have choices, and they do, but it is not good public policy to incentivize, subsidize, and encourage bad health choices, and outcomes with billions of dollars of funding


If we actually had a healthy society, which is obtainable, we could pay for healthcare without bankrupting the country.

 

[406dn]

The biggest dilemma involving US healthcare is both the provider and the payer are in cost plus business models.

Medical facilities adjust costs to cover new facilities, and every other expensive asset they use. My father in law sat on a hospital board, back in the day. He said it was a given that some items you can't charge the true cost, and that was made up with inflating the prices, where you could. Hence the $5 aspirin pill.

Insurance companies have the ability to continually measure their costs and revenue. They will never long be in a position where outflow exceeds inflow. Their business survives nicely with rising costs. They adjust rates to stay ahead of the curve.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I don’t think you should even have to go to a VA hospital. You should be able to go to anywhere you want and the government should pick up the tab.

That is the case already. Huntsman Cancer Institute (a fabulous SLC care facility) treated my cancer, which VA concluded was induced by Agent Orange. A local private hearing impairment doctor acquires my hearing aids and treats me with costs paid by VA and Medicare ... even though my hearing loss is mostly resultant from stupidly not wearing hearing protection previously during my younger "bullet-proof" life in close proximity to jet turbine helicopter engines, artillery, main gun of Abrams M1 tank, small arms, chainsaws, and log splitters!

WEAR HEARING PROTECTION!!!

 

[BuzzH]

I know this thread is supposed to be about the attack on the feds independence.
I think that attack, along with the attack on Iran, the genocide in Gaza, the attack on Venezuela, the attack on public lands by senate Rs etc. are all kind of a pattern of failures of the Trump administration that a lot of people, even people that voted for him, are not happy about.

I know this is debatable, but it does seem that the one topic that the administration might actually be doing some good is in the health area. I would be a lot more inclined to want to subsidize people‘s health insurance if I was not also subsidizing the foods that are making them sick. Whether it’s subsidies to sugar beet farmers or highly processed sugar laden cereals in the school lunch and breakfast programs, I do not think it is reasonable to ask us to pay to make people sick with bad food and then ask us to also pay for their healthcare.
I know a lot of people will say that those people have choices, and they do, but it is not good public policy to incentivize, subsidize, and encourage bad health choices, and outcomes with billions of dollars of funding


If we actually had a healthy society, which is obtainable, we could pay for healthcare without bankrupting the country.

It's not sugar beet farmers, its corn syrup from corn producers that are the major problem.

Also, when wages suck major ass in the U.S. its pretty tough to tell someone to eat healthy when the cheapest food is also the most unhealthy.

I don't think you realize how much a large population of Americans are struggling and its not all their fault. It's easy to point fingers and tell them what they need to do when they aren't even making the base of Maslow's life needs.

 

[BigHornRam]

That is the case already. Huntsman Cancer Institute (a fabulous SLC care facility) treated my cancer, which VA concluded was induced by Agent Orange. A local private hearing impairment doctor acquires my hearing aids and treats me with costs paid by VA and Medicare ... even though my hearing loss is mostly resultant from stupidly not wearing hearing protection previously during my younger "bullet-proof" life in close proximity to jet turbine helicopter engines, artillery, main gun of Abrams M1 tank, small arms, chainsaws, and log splitters!

WEAR HEARING PROTECTION!!!

For the talk about eating the rich, the Huntsman Cancer Institute is a great example of the philanthropy that goes on in this country.

 

[Irrelevant]

Healthcare or health insurance?

I think most of the problems in our system is driven by how healthcare is paid for and who has so much influence over it.

I think that’s what makes our system so hard to fix, with a quasi capitalist system that’s not working that well. But the only proposed solution is one that has proven itself too at least in certain aspects, be worse. Putting less strain on the system is probably the biggest thing we could do, but with 2/3 of the country overweight and plagued with chronic disease, and the largest generation in our country entering their 70s, that probably won’t happen anytime soon so we might as well keep looking for other ideas.


You can call 911 right now and experts in medical triage will rush to your house, and then rush you to a building full of other experts and save your life with the most advanced medical devices and technology in the world or they’ll put you on a helicopter full of life-saving technology and devices and land on the roof of a building that contains a specialist in the exact problem that you’re having.
That’s some pretty good healthcare.

It’s the billing end and how to pay for it that is so messed up it’ll leave you wishing they never came.

Valid difference I suppose.
Though I still hear plenty of complaints about being treated like a number and not a person. The best treatment I've had is from our pay to play provider here in town. I legitimately thought he cared about what he was doing.

 

[BuzzH]

For the talk about eating the rich, the Huntsman Cancer Institute is a great example of the philanthropy that goes on in this country.

I agree, its really too bad we don't encourage more of that kind of philanthropy instead of trying to inhabit mars.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I agree, its really too bad we don't encourage more of that kind of philanthropy instead of trying to inhabit mars.

Yes! The wealth of the Huntsman family cannot be counted in dollars, as their heart and caring attitude is exuded throughout the Huntsman Cancer Institue. At my outbriefing from that facility I could not find adequate words to describe my gratitude at the care provided by all ... from the cleaning lady to the top dog robotic cancer surgeon! It felt like I was the only patient in the building and they were focused solely on me!

'Sorry for the diversion from Feds independence, but I felt compelled to express information about my socialistic blessings.