Are we still a Christian nation ?

[rwc101]

"I'll take Threads I Should Have Quit Days Ago for $800, Alex."

 

[Mudder]

If we proclaim that the US is a “ Christian Nation” Is that like saying: “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others” ?

IMO it is more like saying all animals come from a single source

Certainly. At a certain point though that can not only ring hollow, but it can also slide right into intellectual dishonesty.

Is it intellectually dishonest to use probabilities instead of absolutes?

If Atheists are attacking Christianity you might want some better examples than the one provided.....or at least get the facts straight.

High Court Weighs Legality Of Memorial Cross

The Supreme Court hears a case on the display of a World War I memorial cross as a national memorial. Critics say the cross violates the ban on government-established religion. In 1999, a Buddhist sought permission to erect a shrine near the cross. The National Park Service said no.

www.npr.org

All I have to say is that story has metamorphized and been spun more than a little. Which direction it has been spun is anybody's guess. The original complaint at that time and place was from a young lady Ranger shortly after the area was Nationalized. Where it went from there is likely a bit foggy or anybody's guess. I got the story from locals. This version sounds like damage control

It is just one example of many where fanaticism evolves and common sense is the victim.

 

[Muskeez]

Bambi, I don't believe I ever said that all inmates find Jesus in prison. So saying that the 50% that end up back in prison after they left must have lost Jesus is quite the assumption. Maybe the most interesting data would be how many of the repeat inmates are Christians vs. non Christians on a percentage basis. We can never know that because there is no way to track a persons religion. Since we have freedom of religion I doubt inmates are asked that question upon arrival Also note in my first post that the meaning of being a Christian to me is being able to say "I am a sinner" - sinners keep sinning, that doesn't stop because someone becomes a Christian. They just are hopefully willing to acknowledge those sins, ask for forgiveness and TRY not to repeat them even though we all keep doing it day after day after day. Christians aren't any more perfect than anyone else, their just forgiven. Great discussion guys and gals, I've learned some things about the history of this great nation, even if some are simply opinions.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Is it intellectually dishonest to use probabilities instead of absolutes?

I have absolutely no idea what this is in reference to.

 

[Trial153]

IMO it is more like saying all animals come from a single source

Thanks for confirming that the quotation when right over your head.

 

[Mudder]

I have absolutely no idea what this is in reference to.

Simple you said intellectual dishonesty or in other words faulty logic. If the answer isn't absolute the next best recourse is probability. Probability can be applied to a problem (or subject) with no absolute answer, an unproven hypothesis.

One fault of debate is when a debater claims absolutes or changes the focus from macro to micro and out argues the opponent. That doesn't make the outcome true, it just makes a masterdebater.

 

[Mudder]

Thanks for confirming that the quotation when right over your head.

Not in the slightest I just didn't accept your faulty logic. The original statement was that much of our Laws are based on Christian values. And you tried to spin it. By saying non Christians are less than, which is faulty logic.

 

[Trial153]

Not in the slightest I just didn't accept your faulty logic. The original statement was that much of our Laws are based on Christian values. And you tried to spin it. By saying non Christians are less than, which is faulty logic.

Buddy your lost in this discussion. Stay in the shallow end of the pool.

 

[Mudder]

Buddy your lost in this discussion. Stay in the shallow end of the pool.

Where did you learn that tactic, trying to belittle an opponent? Sounds like a Trumpism.
Maybe the Masterdebater is morphing into a Masterbaiter. I've been chummed now what?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

You can spin this however you want to. I struggle mightily with watching the POTUS claim to be a man of faith, yet watch him in his daily actions and words. To brush it off as “we are all a work in progress “ is a dangerous out.

Yes, we are all human, imperfect, broken and prone to sin. I am just as much as anyone. However, reconciliation with God begins with recognition of our sins and making those right with one another. Skipping this step but wanting to proclaim forgiveness because we are all works in progress doesn’t pass the smell test and ends up appearing to others as cheap justification for poor behavior.

I’m not going to belabor this, nor do I care to prove anyone right or wrong. If we can’t be honest about living out our faith, then we aren’t much of a follower of Christ. If you think the POTUS does this on a daily basis, I’ll leave this.


John 3:30 English Standard Version (ESV)
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[a]

 

[rwc101]

Going to hijack the thread momentarily to pay homage to my favorite actor of all time. Played both Jesus Christ and the devil.

 

[Mudder]

You can spin this however you want to. I struggle mightily with watching the POTUS claim to be a man of faith, yet watch him in his daily actions and words. To brush it off as “we are all a work in progress “ is a dangerous out.

Yes, we are all human, imperfect, broken and prone to sin. I am just as much as anyone. However, reconciliation with God begins with recognition of our sins and making those right with one another. Skipping this step but wanting to proclaim forgiveness because we are all work sin progress doesn’t pass the smell test.

I’m not going to belabor this, nor do I care to prove anyone right or wrong. If we can’t be honest about living out our faith, then we aren’t much of a follower of Christ. If you think the POTUS does this on a daily basis, I’ll leave this.


John 3:30 English Standard Version (ESV)
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[a]

I respect your opinion.

 

[morley.tyler]

Bambi, I don't believe I ever said that all inmates find Jesus in prison. So saying that the 50% that end up back in prison after they left must have lost Jesus is quite the assumption. Maybe the most interesting data would be how many of the repeat inmates are Christians vs. non Christians on a percentage basis. We can never know that because there is no way to track a persons religion. Since we have freedom of religion I doubt inmates are asked that question upon arrival Also note in my first post that the meaning of being a Christian to me is being able to say "I am a sinner" - sinners keep sinning, that doesn't stop because someone becomes a Christian. They just are hopefully willing to acknowledge those sins, ask for forgiveness and TRY not to repeat them even though we all keep doing it day after day after day. Christians aren't any more perfect than anyone else, their just forgiven. Great discussion guys and gals, I've learned some things about the history of this great nation, even if some are simply opinions.

Well- why wouldn’t I wade into this one?? Sense be damned.
Finding Christ in Prison is a bit like the old saying that there are no Atheists in a foxhole...
That said, the recidivism question is much deeper. Having worked in the penal system for a period of time there are many reasons.
-Education at a basic level
-Lack of rehabilitation and counseling while incarcerated
-A lack of skills and life training
-A lack of positive role models in an impoverished community
-A cycle of broken homes and families.

Then there’s the entire topic of institutionalized racism that offers far lesser opportunities for communities of color. There is plenty of data for this. So, please, don’t come at me w/ the argument that there is “no such thing as White privilege”. It’s hogwash.
When I was a screw up of a kid in the 80’s. My conservative, redneck dad in North Idaho asked me a very thought provoking question:
Dad: Do you realize how lucky you are?
Me: No
Dad: You we’re born White, male, middle class, in America.
Me: So?
Dad: So? So, which one of those things do you want to give back? Pick one.

 

[noharleyyet]

I have a great longtime friend who pastor's a large Baptist church on the outskirts of OKC. We never talk about religion.

 

[BigHornRam]

"I'll take Threads I Should Have Quit Days Ago for $800, Alex."

10 foot pole topics for 1000, Alex.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I have a great longtime friend who pastor's a large Baptist church on the outskirts of OKC. We never talk about religion.

Talking religion is easy. Try being a Denver Broncos fan while hanging out with a bunch of Seahawk fans.

 

[Jape]

The Pew Research Center has a recent study that discusses the questions in the original post in depth and thought it would be interesting to some.

Christian share in U.S. sinking fast as religious landscape changes

Pew survey also finds church pews emptier, while share of ‘religious nones’ grows

www.deseret.com

 

[Gerald Martin]

Talking religion is easy. Try being a Denver Broncos fan while hanging out with a bunch of Seahawk fans.

And all along I thought we could be friends... I guess I was wrong.
I’ll take “Justifiable reasons to burn heathens at the stake.”, for $800, Alex.

At least it’s not the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[hank4elk]

And all along I thought we could be friends... I guess I was wrong.
I’ll take “Justifiable reasons to burn heathens at the stake.”, for $800, Alex.

At least it’s not the Dallas Cowboys.

Or the Raiders.....Jeezus Christo!
Just don't treat people like crap people.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

The Pew Research Center has a recent study that discusses the questions in the original post in depth and thought it would be interesting to some.

Christian share in U.S. sinking fast as religious landscape changes

Pew survey also finds church pews emptier, while share of ‘religious nones’ grows

www.deseret.com

Good article. In particular, this part really jump out at me.

More common, though, Peterson said, is young people bringing up scandals and talking about faith leaders who say one thing but act differently.


He thinks a lot of young people flee religious institutions, but not necessarily God. “I see a lot of students who want to distinguish between religious institutions and spiritual beliefs,” he said.