Antler point restrictions

[BigHornRam]

I think the big difference between Colorado and Montana is that we limit non resident licenses and there are a lot less Montanan's than Coloradan's in a bigger state. What works here, most likely won't work there. I guess I'm lucky to live where I live.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Seems like the goal in Colorado is to sell the most licenses. Don't most units have multiple seasons also, like a week for each, seasons for bow, muzzleloader, and multiple rifle seasons??? Talk about crap. Hopefully the good deer hunting makes up for it.

 

[A-con]

I think the idea of 4 point/browtine restrictions is to allow younger bulls to get an “education” i.e survive at least two years of watching hunters kill older bulls.
Hopefully, some of them learn what is going every fall, and learn how to avoid joe sixpack, growing old enough to become mature. Does it work ? I’ve seen 320 class 6X6 bulls come out of the Co. White River herd, and Montana general areas produce a good number of mature bulls every year.
I think New Mexico is doing the right thing going to 5 points or better.
I would like to see more limited units in Co. (drawing with limited tag numbers)

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

A raghorn killed as a raghorn has zero percent chance of becoming mature...get it?

 

[OSOK]

The #'s I've seen, more than 9 out of 10 "Legal" bulls in Colorado never live to see 3.5 years of age. Having hunted here my entire life I would have to say absolutely no, regarding whether a 5 point restriction would be of a benifit... The majority of your "Raghorn" 2.5 y/o animals are still going to be completely legal. I believe what Oak states to be true. There would be instances where illegally shot animals would be left. How many ? It's hard to say... If you're shooting off all the 2.5 y/o 5x5's then what are you leaving to breed? 2.5 y/o 3x3's, 3x4's, 4x4's... Definitly not the top of the gene pool... Colorado has the genes if the DOW would just get away from there money Mongering ways... That will never happen.

Anybody in Montana need an elk hunting partner?

 

[The Hedgehog]

depends on if anybody in Colorado needs a mule deer hunting partner.

 

[Oak]

I need one. We've got too damn many deer. We should open more doe seasons.

Oak

 

[CAVETOMB]

Why not just make it a 6 point or better limit? Heck 7 might be even better. Ha ha.

 

[schmalts]

BHR, what i am trying to say is if CO raised its point restriction to 5pts at least half or better of the 2.5 year old bulls WILL not get shot and will get a little educated.
There is the fact that guys have a hard time seeing just like QDM here in WI. That is if this 5pt goes through there will be just as many bulls shot after the first year or two and the quality will be better, and the quality of the overall hunt will be better as well with a better cow/bull ratio. We all know that better cow/bull ratio means more rutting activity and a more enjoyable hunt.
Guys will only suffer a year lrtting the 4pts walk and the next year there will be just as many 4pts and a LOT MORE 5 and 6pts. You cannot say it will not help as i find it hard to believe that more than half of CO gene pool grows 5 points in 2.5 age class.
BHR, i agree, there are good bulls in most places once you get far enough off the road, i seen them every year i hunted CO's over the counter tags but unfortunatly all i had was a bow in my hand.... never hunted elk any other way, If i did i can say i would have killed at least a 280 bull every year with even a muzz.
My point is 5pt is at least doing something, a 4pt is doing nothing but saving spikes or spikes with cheaters.
And BHR, sorry but it is all about the challenge for me, the meat is just a bonus. I dont need meat, i give 2-3 deer away a year. That being said a challenge to me is to try to get a better bull than the couple i killed already until i really get a monster, we all have our own goals. You telling me you hunt sheep for the meat?? LOl

 

[BigHornRam]

Schmalts,

Yeah I hunt sheep for meat, it is the best meat there is. But the trophy is important as well. The quality of the hunt is most important however. I agree that we all have our own goals and that's the neat part about hunting. However, too many people try too hard to impress other people, instead of just enjoying the hunt for themselves.

I agree with Oak and his comments on what would happen if Colorado went to a 5 point minimum.

 

[schmalts]

It dont matter, those same idiots are already shooting illigal bulls now! if they can't count to 5 they cannot count to 4 now.

 

[OSOK]

Schmalts - I obviously havn't hunted a great many different areas in Colorado, as I'm only going on my 16th year afield. I will say one thing though! More than half of the 2 y/o bulls I've shot w/ a bow have had at least 5 points on a side. Has there been oppurtunity to shoot 4x4's or 3x3 that were passed? Sure, but the majority of the rag's I run across are 4x5 and 5x5, w/ the 4x4 and smaller being less common... Then again, I've only ever shot 11 elk w/ a bow so what would I know!

 

[BigHornRam]

Oak,

I think it's sad that a guy can shoot a nice bull like you did and elk hunt every year in paradise, and still complain about it. I bet there are a lot of people that would love to have half the opportunity that you have. I don't understand such negative thinking.

 

[Oak]

Paul, maybe it's because I can hunt elk every year in paradise that I'm negative about the elk management here. I know the difference between managing for quality and quantity. The reason CO manages for quantity is that there are all those people out there that would love to have half the opportunity I have. The non-residents are happy to fork over $500 for a raghorn...why should the DOW be doing anything differently? I guess you can either demand the best or settle for what they give you. Right now most people are settling...

Oak

 

[BigHornRam]

So Colorado has no units with restrictions on hunter numbers or weapon use for a "quality" hunt? Or just not enough areas with restrictions. Schmalts said he could of killed such a size rack in Colorado if he had a gun, but he was hunting in a bow unit. You think that had something to do with why he saw bigger elk in that area? Make it tougher for guys to get an elk and they complain. Make drawing an elk tag tougher and they complain. Give people more opportunity and they complain. Raise the license fee's and they complain. Looks to me that the G&F people are in a no win situation. I read an article in this weekends paper that many of the game departments in the west are facing declining resident hunter numbers and funding problems. Colorado was one of those states mentioned. Wish I could find a link.

 

[Oak]

Colorado has units with restrictions, but not nearly enough. The guy that hasn't started applying yet will never be able to hunt some of the better units because the number of points needed to draw goes up every year. Schmalts wasn't hunting in a bow only unit, he was hunting during a bow season. Do you consider a 280 bull a mature bull?

Make it tougher for guys to get an elk and they complain. Make drawing an elk tag tougher and they complain. Give people more opportunity and they complain. Raise the license fee's and they complain.

I wouldn't complain if they did every one of those things. And none of those ideas are exclusive, it just depends on what you call "opportunity." Opportunity to have a quality hunt for a mature bull, or opportunity to whack a 150-250 bull every single year?

 

[OSOK]

You really think the CDOW is concerned about resident hunter recruitment #'s? Any body and their "Bubba" brother can come here and hunt for a mere 500 dollar tag.. And, you seriously think we the residents at $30 a pop really have any pull?

I've spent a whopping 2 days hunting elk in this state the last 3 years!!! In those two days I've passed on 3 bulls over 280! So what's your point??? I'm not gonna break my back, to pack out a dink...

Oak hit in on the head. So will anyone else that lives here and has any knowledge about the current situation... We as residents have "0" opportunity over a nonresident! It is all based on preference points. If you didn't play the game 12-15 years ago, you basicly have no hope of ever hunting the "True Quality" units in this state... Not that there aren't big bulls in ever unit! But, things could just be so much better.

 

[BigHornRam]

I don't get why you guy's classify elk as a 150 rack, a 280 rack, a 320 rack, and so on. There's a lot of areas where a mature bull has a small rack. So what? Does this ruin the quality of the hunt? Your guys obsession with getting a big rack is the cause of much of the problems you complain about. Simple supply and demand. More guys that want to shoot a big elk than big elk available to shoot.

So there are big bulls in most every unit in Colorado even with the less than perfect management. Sounds to me that if getting a big bull is important to you than instead of whinning about it, you have to get out there and hunt a little harder. Hopefully you Colorado boys will get your big bull before all our wolves up here come down there to pay you a visit. I can already hear the whinning that will be going on when that day comes.

 

[OSOK]

#'s are meaningless. I don't hunt for "Any book"! The #'s I use are to only portray an idea to like minded hunters whom understand... IMO an elk doesn't meet the standards of which I've set forth as a "mounter" bull until they get pretty close to around the 330" mark... Are there 330 class bulls in "Every" unit in Colorado? I doubt it, and if there are it's about like finding a needle in a haystack. Fortunately the deer hunting is far better than average, hense the reason I've put so much effort into chasing our elk... Besides elk are nothing more than a frikin Holstein w/ antlers on there heads. Not exactly what I consider to be the toughest things in the world to kill... You can only kill so many 260 and lesser bulls before you get tired of killing the same old thing, every year. With little opportunity of upping the standard...

One thing. Don't preach to me about "Belittleling" the experience over the size of a trophy! That's about as much horsechit as I've seen yet on this post... It's called the "evolution" of a hunter. I'm sure you've heard of it before. Not all of us are satisfied with shooting dinks our whole lives. Just 2 years ago I put a Californian w/in his own archery ability of a "Mature" heavy 5x5 bull. He made one hell of a shot, and wept as he was hugging me telling me that I had no idea what it ment, how I had helped him realize "his dream". One of a few great memories... It's come to the point where I would rather see someone else kill an animal that they get totally excited, go through all those same feelings that I once had in my earlier years as a hunter... All I'm really after is 1 wall hanger in my lifetime. If it happens here in Colorado then so be it. If not, I'll make it happen elsewhere.

 

[Oak]

Paul, it's about more than just killing a wallhanger. It's about the health of the herd. I don't think we have too many 6-8 year old 280" bulls running around. Go back and look at the info from the CDOW I posted. Does 1.8 bulls 3 1/2 years old or older per 100 cows sound good to you? Is that a healthy age structure for a herd?

Your last post is exactly what I'm talking about. Too many hunters are willing to accept what's given to them instead of demanding better management.

Oak