Advice on horse usage?

[Muskeez]

Two of us have bowhunted elk in the same are in CO the past 2 years. We are still greenhorns but we are getting more experiences and very close to more bulls each year. Unfortunately we are getting farther and farther from the truck. We go in with our packs for 7 days. By the end of the week we are shot and packing a bull out will surely be exhausting but rewarding. Last year if one of our opportunities would have worked out we would have had a 9 mile pack out. According to GPS (as the crow flies). With just 2 guys that makes for several trips out just for one elk and gear.

So, I am looking for suggestions and advice on horses. I have some riding experience but we would likely just walk them in. I can get horses or mules to use from my family but they are flatland horses and get ridden in the "hills" of Iowa mostly. What are your experiences using horses? One concern is the amount of daily care they would need. We like to strike out at sunrise and not come back to camp until after sunset some days. Can horses be tied up with meadow grass to eat during the day and watered at night or do they need food and water throughout the day? If we are chasing elk up on the mountain I wouldn't want to have to climb back down to do horse chores at mid-day, then hike back up to get on elk again. Maybe hiring a packer would be a better option, more expensive but less trouble? We have a Delorme Inreach that we could text GPS coordinates to a packer with. Or maybe we just need to get in nutty good shape like Cam! I'd better put back this cinnamon roll now if that's the case!

Thanks for any advice from those who have done this before.

 

[1_pointer]

In my limited experience with them on a few hunts, they are a blessing and a curse! Love them for packing, if they are good ones and used to it. One small rodeo while packing out made me aware just how fast things could go really bad. The second is the care of them. On the elk hunts, we left them high lined in camp for most of the day and fed them pellets with a couple of hours of grazing time. Someone has to be around to do that as it's much easier in the daylight. On a sheep hunt, we fenced them in a meadow at a lake with one two of them hobbled. An earlier than normal snow storm spooked them. I know seeing the horse tracks heading back the 20ish miles to camp made for a bit of a sickening feeling...

I think with some homework, renting could be done, but I'd be sure to practice packing a horse a few times before if no one in the group is experienced in it. For me, in your situation, I would look into a packer. Looks like you guys are okay getting your gear in and just need help getting the critter out. The added expense, if that's how it pans out, would be wholly offset IMO by the extra work needed to take care of them. Then again, I'm a neophyte when it comes to dealing with horses...

 

[Summitthunting]

Have you looked into renting lamas or goats?

 

[HSi-ESi]

From the experience you listed, taking horses that aren't used to the country (or packing) could be quite an adventure.

Since I am still young and healthy enough to pack my own stuff, I'm not using horses (not saying that you have to be old and fat to use horses, just that it's not worth the hassle for me yet). For an extended campaign style hunt - horses require a ton of work (and gear, food). It's different if you are just running up the trail to pack out meat.

Also, horses can get quite 'testy' around dead animals. Packing 100 lbs of elk meat isn't the same as packing 100 lbs of gear.

If you are serious about it - I would look into some forums specific on horses. Maybe find an old packer and buy him a dinner or two in exchange for knowledge.

 

[npaden]

If you can find someone that you could use for a packer that would charge a reasonable fee that would be the way to go hands down. Just the extra fuel you would burn hauling a load of horses to and from Iowa would probably get close to offsetting the cost of a packer.

The tricky part is getting one lined up. You hear a lot of folks saying people do packing for others, but getting them on the phone and lined up can be a different story.

Also be clear about how far you will be in and how close to a decent trail. You will probably still need to get the elk close to a trail, but you would need to do that even if you had your own horses.

I've used a packer one time and it was expensive ($500), but it was worth it to me at the time.

The other benefit to a packer is you aren't out the $$ if you don't end up getting something on the ground. If you haul your own horses from Iowa you are going to be out the fuel and and time and effort to care for them whether you end up getting something or not.

Good luck.

 

[El Jason]

I used to pack in a lot with horses. As already said, it's a blessing and a curse. You CAN leave them all day, but they are going to be restless and noisy all night. The times I have left them all day, we highlined them and fed them hay cubes morning and night. It is much preferable to turn them out for an hour or two each day so they can graze. This will greatly minimize the risk of colic and they won't be as antsy on the highline at night.

If you want to picket them out all day, try it at home for a few hours, working up to all day. You don't want to try anything for the first time when your 10 miles in on an elk hunt.

Keep in mind the hidden costs of hauling horses. Not only do you have extra fuel, but you also have the cost of your vet papers/health certificates/brand inspections. Check with the states you are traveling through before you go, as some states will issue citations for not having your paperwork in order.

Make sure they don't mind the packsaddles and panniers. Some horses that are great to ride won't tolerate a packsaddle very well. Again, try it at home. Expose them to blood, meat, hides and antlers before you go. Sound like a broken record here? I should.

Good horses are worth their weight in gold. A bad one can flat ruin a trip and put you in the hospital.

 

[MThuntr]

I'll echo what was already said...you'll probably be better off having a packer do the hauling. In my experience, animals require a bit more attention than a hunter can offer. Moving horse from IA will require a ton of fuel, health certificates, and then a day or so to have them acclimate to the elevation. On 2 separate pack trips I took this summer for work we had good animals and still had a couple complete wrecks including a mule kicking a horse causing some backcountry doctoring and one horse going down with a rider on its back. The one thing that stuck with me was the amount of noise the horses made at night and that was compounded on the next trip with several of the horses having bells.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

So much to say and yet I have done most of the Good and the Bad. First a good trailer is expensive, 3 horses and mules are at least a 150 dollars a month each plus Ferrier cost. Figure 1500-2000 dollars for each animal with the glut right now and the cheap ones are the ones you use to inspect the top of your Barn, it's just hitting the ground that is the bad part. Your truck that got 18 mpg is now getting 7-8 mpg.
And it never fails that that one animal that anyone can ride will find that piece of tin on the barn 3 days before the trip that is sharper than a knife! And the wonder of a big black horse who lets kids climb all over them will run you over bringing out an elk through a NF gap because a sign went "twang" on a stirrup. But broken ribs can also allow you to slowly hunt the dark timber at a very slow pace. Good Luck! John

 

[Bambistew]

I wouldn't lend my horse/mule to anyone unless I know they have a clue how to deal with one in the mountains when it gets western. Sure they're all bulletproof until something weird happens. I've seen all sorts of wrecks. We used to run a couple pack strings, and had all sorts of mountain horses. My old man, and both gramps used to run horses all season and year long working cattle. I've seen horses with their foot stuck in tree roots (multiple times), a big ass tree fall in a freak wind storm on a picket line, horse take a roll of a really steep hill, had one have a heart attack on the trail, bears, moose, other people horses trying to fight, they get lose (usually right at dark) you'll find them at home or at the horse trailer... pack horses getting tangled, packs getting hung up in trees, horses buried in mini avalanches, antlers getting tangled on a pack, the list goes on and on. 9 times out of 10 everything goes as planned, but when it doesn't...

We had good horses that spent a lot of time in the mountains, either chasing elk or cows. The collateral damage was usually pretty minor. e. But I've seen more than one dead horse in the woods. We only had a few broken bones, and a couple concussions, dam near lost a hunter when a horse rolled on him, and lost one rifle. I would ask myself, do I have the knowledge to know what to do with a big animal when the chit hits the fan? Imagine telling your family member that ol Trigger is tits up in the bottom of a creek.

I've been around a lot of riding and pack animals and one thing is for certain, its not a matter of if a wreck happens, but when.

Horses are a PITA when hunting, and I avoid them at all costs. They are great for packing and getting to and from, but besides that I have zero use for one. You have to water them, make sure they're not tangled in picket ropes, have ample feed, etc, etc. Its damn near a full time job. When I'm hunting the last thing I want to deal with is taking care of a pet.

My thoughts... find someone to pack your elk out, and rent a satellite phone, call when needed. Or suck it up and pack it out on your back. You'll spend a lot more time hunting.

 

[Muskeez]

Bambistew = "My thoughts... find someone to pack your elk out, and rent a satellite phone, call when needed. Or suck it up and pack it out on your back. You'll spend a lot more time hunting. "

This was what I was assuming I would hear, but needed confirmation. Thank you to all the guys that posted info. Summary = too many things can go wrong. I will start researching packers that are willing to come in if they are called.

Thanks again for the wisdom guys!

 

[brymoore]

Rent llamas if you can't pack it our yourself.

 

[Muskeez]

Bry, how would llamas differ from horses in regards to care and needs, and trouble waiting to happen? Any experiences you can share?

 

[ida homer]

Rent llamas if you can't pack it our yourself.

+1

I bought pack goats this last summer. The learning curve has been probably one twentieth of what horses would be. When mine don't want to load, we pick them up and throw them into the truck bed. Good luck with horses...

If I were you, in this order, I would find buddies with horses , call in a packer if the budget allows, rent llamas or pack goats. They are easy to deal with and can go anywhere you would want to kill an elk. It's nice being able to get the goats all the way to the kill site.

 

[Lawnboy]

I have and use horses. I can't help from giggling at Draftstuds comments. So true

 

[brymoore]

Bry, how would llamas differ from horses in regards to care and needs, and trouble waiting to happen? Any experiences you can share?

Llamas will eat anything on the mountain - no need to pack feed. They're part of the camelid family don't require large amounts of water. They'll go anywhere you can walk. Added bonus is that they're cheap. If they piss you off, you can just shoot the offender and buy another for less than $100.

The only advantage I see to horses is that you can ride them.

 

[mdunc8]

Glue...

 

[junior71]

You would be better off paying the expenses for a couple of buddy's to go along with you. Preferably 18 to 30 year olds.

 

[quarterhorse]

I've had great hunts with my own stock. I would never rent or borrow a horse from someone else - sounds like trouble waiting to happen. "Good" horses don't get loaned or rented out, only the troublesome ones do.

 

[streamer]

I've been debating this same thing for my next trip. Where does a guy find pack goats?

 

[Summitthunting]

Added bonus is that they're cheap. If they piss you off, you can just shoot the offender and buy another for less than $100.

Quote of the day, brymoore!

I look at goats the same way, my roommate had two goats in college, I now hate goats. Disposable pack animals!