Adjusting length

[Dougfirtree]

I have several manuals, but find them all lacking in the description of this process.

This is the most helpful piece of writing I've found on the subject. Not quite sure why my reloading books don't have such a simple explanation... Thanks for all the advice folks.

 

[RookieHunter]

Doug, find some precision loading manuals. Most reloading manuals are working off SAAMI spec and don't get much deeper. This makes since from a safety point of view, because they are working off a known set of parameters and gun makers build to meet those parameters.

Doug to answer your original question, please give the fine folks here some good starting information as this information will dictate/affect bullet seating possibilities. For instance, if you are in reloading for any length of time you will hear guys talking about the down fall of the bolt action in regards to seating premium long BC bullets out far enough...why? Because of the restrictions of the magazine.

In most cases, the best the average Joe can achieve with a bolt action it to seat a bullet as long as his magazine will allow or resolve to hand feed rounds into the chamber, when using long bullets.

What do I do? When loading for my B78 chambered in 6-06, which is a falling block single shot so length is not affected by the action but just throat alone. (Throat is the distance measure in the chambering from the relief cut at the end of the neck of the casing to where the rifling starts...this is throat.)

Have to go to work...I'll have to get back to you.

But even in my situation because of the length of "throat" in my particular barrel, there are some bullets I just can't flat out seat long enough as I run out of neck.

Later, James

 

[RookieHunter]

Doug, some helpful information would be:

* Intended use...What are you looking to accomplish?
*Shooting ability - Most often it is the shooters failure to shoot to a rifles potential not the other
way around. Good breathing, Trigger Control and sight/body alignment and
sight picture gets you to and around MOA...Jump and Harmonics as well as
other fine nuances of reloading allows you to tighten those groups to compete
at a high level. IN a nut shell...OAL won't mean inches at the bench but tenths
of inches.
* Firearm model
* Chambering
* Bullet specs. - Manufacturer/Type/Grain Wt

Answers to these questions will help others to help you.

Your last comment, implied you had gained nothing thus far in this thread. RE-READ, there are some real gems you are overlooking...such as the use and need of an OAL gage, places to start, Magazine length, using a "Load Ladder" (or what I like to call a "Load Log" to record load details and work up) and safety concerns. Your willingness to understand the above will shorten the learning curve in your pursuit to understand "Bullet Jump".

By the way, the Berger Site has an excellent article regarding length, the merits of CBTO Vs. COAL. A wealth of information not found in your standard reloading manual.

Reloading is a great hobby with tons of interesting reading...enjoy!

James

 

[Dougfirtree]

This is the most helpful piece of writing I've found on the subject. Not quite sure why my reloading books don't have such a simple explanation... Thanks for all the advice folks.

Ha ha, I forgot the link I was referring to: https://www.nosler.com/blog/news-and-articles/2013/6/4/beyond-the-basics-developing-your-own-loads

 

[Millsworks]

Certainly no offence taken here.
I am fully aware maximum powder charge and maximum case capacity are two very different things.
Sometimes hard for all to understand each other fully by what is written instead of spoken.
Always good to try to clear any confusion in a potential unsafe scenario.
All is well I'm sure. Simply saying or at least trying to say that a max load with what ever powder type should be used after bullet seating depth is found. And carefully moved up to after that. If you are even going to push that far.
This has and I'm sure always will work for me.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Doug, find some precision loading manuals. Most reloading manuals are working off SAAMI spec and don't get much deeper. This makes since from a safety point of view, because they are working off a known set of parameters and gun makers build to meet those parameters.

Doug to answer your original question, please give the fine folks here some good starting information as this information will dictate/affect bullet seating possibilities. For instance, if you are in reloading for any length of time you will hear guys talking about the down fall of the bolt action in regards to seating premium long BC bullets out far enough...why? Because of the restrictions of the magazine.

In most cases, the best the average Joe can achieve with a bolt action it to seat a bullet as long as his magazine will allow or resolve to hand feed rounds into the chamber, when using long bullets.

What do I do? When loading for my B78 chambered in 6-06, which is a falling block single shot so length is not affected by the action but just throat alone. (Throat is the distance measure in the chambering from the relief cut at the end of the neck of the casing to where the rifling starts...this is throat.)

Have to go to work...I'll have to get back to you.

But even in my situation because of the length of "throat" in my particular barrel, there are some bullets I just can't flat out seat long enough as I run out of neck.

Later, James

I wasn't saying that I haven't found good stuff in the responses. I just forgot to include the link to the article I was talking about and am surprised that my reloading manuals don't get more in depth about load development. None of them have a step by step guide with explanations why it's being done that way. Seems like the logical way to write it out, to me, though I get the liability concern...

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I did glean several good ideas from the responses. If you're interested in my particulars, I set out to create a "do-everything" load for my 7mm-08, which will be good for deer here at home, in the Adirondacks, and also good on elk and antelope, out to 300 yards, when I hunt out west. I also wanted it to be a lead-free bullet. I'm loading 145 grain Barnes LRX bullets over RL 17 in Hornady cases, with WLR primers and the rifle is a newer M-70 featherweight, with a 22" barrel. The rifle clearly liked 45 grains, as groups above and below were 2-3" but that one was 1 and 1/16th". I had been loading them to 2.8", the recommended OAL in the Barnes data. However, my magazine will accept 2.9" and .050 off the lands, with this bullet, is 2.89" in my rifle. So, I'm now loading up some groups, making the OAL longer in increments of .015. I also loaded up one group a bit shorter, out of curiosity. Hopefully I can shrink the group a little bit. I'm not the world's best shot, but I do regularly shoot .75" groups with this rifle and other loads.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[marksjeep]

That is a great bullet. I shoot the same out of a 280AI and have killed one moose and a pile of elk with it. Recovered bullets usually retained over 90% weight. Good choice.

Good luck with your load development.

 

[RookieHunter]

Sounds like you are on the right track...I'd get a Hornady Comparator gage for your calipers, this will allow you to get a Base to Ogive measurement that will be useful for loading all types of bullets...Read that Berger article I mentioned.

Before you try a bunch of different lengths, it's been my experience that .050 off is the magic number for Barnes as they recommend...so let that be your constant. You know your barrel likes the 45gr. of RL17. If I was reloading for your rifle I'd try a couple things before adjusting length in pursuit of a Sub MOA load. First, I'd load 12 rounds each at 44.8gr, 45.0gr, and 45.2gr. all at the same length.

With your new loads, Clean your rifle, with a bore brush and patch...not just a "bore snake" and shoot 3 sets of 4 well aimed shot groups for each loading...cleaning between the load work ups. You will find one load groups better over all. If it's the 45.0 your done with your work up. If it's either 44.8 or 45.2 you will want to work the load in that direction until you are happy. I'm sure you'll find Sub MOA in short order.

FYI, My Elk round Is a 7mm-08 140gr TTSX with 45.5gr RL17 producing 2877FPS @ 57.6K PSI at 2.81COAL Averages just about SUB MOA with some in the 3/4" range perfectly acceptable for a hunting round.

...Varget and the 120 TTSX is my most accurate round in my Stock Model 16 Savage 7mm-08 w/ Vari X III 4.5-14X40 AO.

 

[cahunter805]

Rookie has given you some good advice. Since you already loaded your seating depth test shoot it and see what happens. Try to shoot all the groups on the same paper just different targets and take a picture of it all together. Do you have a chronograph? If so record all speeds for each shot also.

Rookie. Just curious. How do you know your load is 57.6k?

 

[RookieHunter]

AS predicted by QuickLoad. My shooting records show shots chronographed at +-30 FPS of QuickLoad prediction so Pressure should be close to real world as well.

 

[cahunter805]

I figured it was QL. Do you own the program? I've found it to be somewhat accurate at times and other times a bit off but still it's a good starting point.

 

[RookieHunter]

I do own it. It's a great tool coupled with a Chronograph to work up wildcat loads. The 6mmbr.com site has a great article about tweeking QL....especially regarding "Weighting Factor" and "Shot Start (initial) Pressure". I've also, figured out a few things regarding case volume that has helped me Tweek QL to more accurately predict velocities for wildcats.



James

 

[Don Fischer]

This is the most helpful piece of writing I've found on the subject. Not quite sure why my reloading books don't have such a simple explanation... Thanks for all the advice folks.

Because if they print something that blow's u your rifle, they are liable! I don't load the printed OLL, I go first with length to the lands. Then if it won't fit the magazine, change to that length.