A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

[cwitherow]

As an educator, these events and conversations are especially hard. What makes it worse is folks who want to put a gun in my hand and expect ME to do what trained LEO's wont? Between the increase in legislation about lesson plans, curriculum, etc being proposed I cannot fathom what kind of mass exodus would take place if they expected me to be an armed security guard too. Glock in one hand, baton in the other.

 

[LWC55]

As an educator, these events and conversations are especially hard. What makes it worse is folks who want to put a gun in my hand and expect ME to do what trained LEO's wont? Between the increase in legislation about lesson plans, curriculum, etc being proposed I cannot fathom what kind of mass exodus would take place if they expected me to be an armed security guard too. Glock in one hand, baton in the other.

I'm not sure if expect is the right word. But if God forbid you are put in a situation of an active shooter and the school security is either disabled or unable to stop the shooter....would you rather have a gun in your hand and a chance to protect yourself and your students, or be unarmed?

 

[Gulf of America]

And, as far as the jails being full, some of this can be eliminated by following through on the sentence they received -Death. Who here supports Manson being given a death sentence in 1972 and dying of old age a few years ago ? Maybe send a billion less to Ukraine in an effort to get criminals off the street and into jail.

I dont think this is a young/old, right/left, male/female problem. Fund the police, arrest the criminals, eliminate "no bail", and if found guilty of a crime using a gun, a minimum of ten years ( and more including death, depending on the crime )

Mandatory minimums of ten years for crimes committed with guns would pretty much only address gang violence and some domestic violence - most school shooters/mass murderers don't have prior convictions for gun violence. We've been a big part of creating the gang issue by incarcerating fathers for minor drug crimes. And whatever the minimum sentence, gangsters don't stop being gangsters in prison. And in 10 years when we let them all out, going back to life as a gangbanger is easier than trying to start life fresh as a felon. I don't see locking people up as a realistic solution to more than a tiny percentage of gun deaths.

 

[longbow51]

Mandatory minimums of ten years for crimes committed with guns would pretty much only address gang violence and some domestic violence - most school shooters/mass murderers don't have prior convictions for gun violence. We've been a big part of creating the gang issue by incarcerating fathers for minor drug crimes. And whatever the minimum sentence, gangsters don't stop being gangsters in prison. And in 10 years when we let the all out, going back to life as a gangbanger is easier than trying to start life fresh as a felon. I don't see locking people up as a realistic solution to more than a tiny percentage of gun deaths.

Agreed. But, while the current topic is school shootings, I also don't want little kids, or anyone, really, getting shot in Chicago or Baltimore, etc. And it seems like the vast majority of shooters, subway pushers, cars as weapons groups have long records.

And we've already agreed to let all the drug offenders out, although I would need to see some stats that incarceration is the primary reason for no fathers in the home.

 

[BucksnDucks]

What makes it worse is folks who want to put a gun in my hand and expect ME to do what trained LEO's wont?

I do not believe anyone; any rational person wants to put a gun in your hand if that's not what you want. Those people want to give you the opportunity if you choose so.
Secondly, what exactly won't trained LEOs do? If you're buying into the narrative arriving cops just stood around in Texas, I doubt that's accurate. There is obviously more to the story. An active shooter situation turned into a barricaded subject/hostage situation.

 

[Randi]

Mandatory minimums of ten years for crimes committed with guns would pretty much only address gang violence and some domestic violence - most school shooters/mass murderers don't have prior convictions for gun violence. We've been a big part of creating the gang issue by incarcerating fathers for minor drug crimes. And whatever the minimum sentence, gangsters don't stop being gangsters in prison. And in 10 years when we let the all out, going back to life as a gangbanger is easier than trying to start life fresh as a felon. I don't see locking people up as a realistic solution to more than a tiny percentage of gun deaths.

good point sir. However the laws dictating punishment of gun crimes can be changed ---and, at this time approx 25% of all children in the U.S. live with one parent, of which some are mothers, therefore, I would be unable to agree that just because the father ( or mother ) was jailed for a gun related crime that the child could not still become a productive part of society. The drug crime issue is a different subject/crime. My post and thoughts are about Gun crimes.

I will never forget my parents taking me to jail and having me set in a cell for awhile and think about that being my home if I did something stupid. We also were given the opportunity to listen to inmates tell us NOT to follow in their footsteps. Of course there is more to all of this than just "put them in jail", but right now jail is a revolving door, with no fear of any consequences if you do something stupid

I have to leave now so will give you the last word

 

[SAJ-99]

I would need to see some stats that incarceration is the primary reason for no fathers in the home.

Google.

 

[Gulf of America]

I would need to see some stats that incarceration is the primary reason for no fathers in the home.

Nationwide, probably not. But in areas with high rates of gang violence, I'd bet it's a lot higher than you'd like to think.

Mass incarceration and children’s outcomes: Criminal justice policy is education policy

Parental incarceration leads to an array of cognitive and noncognitive outcomes known to affect children’s performance in school. Therefore, the discriminatory incarceration of African American parents makes an important contribution to the racial achievement gap. Educators hoping to narrow the...

www.epi.org

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I had not intended to post again on this thread, but after receiving a couple of polite notes, basically stating their surprise that someone young and female, to have such a harsh outlook toward criminals.

I also notice several have indicated on this thread that the jails are full and that we have the highest incarceration population in the world

O.K. ? Neither of those facts deter me from wanting criminals off the streets. I have never seen a gun on the street committing a crime that wasn't attached to a person. We need to get the criminals of the streets and the guns will follow them.

I am even willing to negotiate with the gentleman whose post I quoted. How about ten years ?

And, as far as the jails being full, some of this can be eliminated by following through on the sentence they received -Death. Who here supports Manson being given a death sentence in 1972 and dying of old age a few years ago ? Maybe send a billion less to Ukraine in an effort to get criminals off the street and into jail.

I dont think this is a young/old, right/left, male/female problem. Fund the police, arrest the criminals, eliminate "no bail", and if found guilty of a crime using a gun, a minimum of ten years ( and more including death, depending on the crime )

To end this post on a more humorous note: A couple years ago during a group discussion about crime in America, one of the other members in the group said, after I finished speaking : You remind me of that old movie Tombstone when Kurt Russel said, " you tell them I.m coming and hell is coming with me"

Again, this is respectively submitted and obviously not many here agree with me, but I want to thank Longbow51 for giving me an opportunity to show I do have compassion. Lets go down to 10

2450 people on death row... of about ~1,400,000-1,900,000 people in prison (depends on how you define it)


The redline is the war on drugs.

 

[Point Creep]

No thanks on new gun control.

"Common sense" tells me that making any kind of a dent in the gun violence/suicide results would take way way way more than any new feel good legislation that will only inconvenience/cost some.

 

[SAJ-99]

No thanks on new gun control.

"Common sense" tells me that making any kind of a dent in the gun violence/suicide results would take way way way more than any new feel good legislation that will only inconvenience/cost some.

Just a quick question, would you allow yourself to be inconvenienced in order to save the lives of children?

 

[LWC55]

Just a quick question, would you allow yourself to be inconvenienced in order to save the lives of children?

Really?

 

[SAJ-99]

Really?

The comment seemed odd from GH. Just wanted to make sure I understood where he is coming from. If there is going to be discussion, we need to figure out what the hang-ups are.

 

[Point Creep]

Just a quick question, would you allow yourself to be inconvenienced in order to save the lives of children?

I'm seeing nothing in the original topic of this post that tells me the lives of little children would be saved, but keep telling yourself that, and that some feel good, we gotta do something laws are going to help. There's ridiculous quantities of guns out there now, and if somebody wants one, they're gonna get it, unless something massive happens.

 

[Point Creep]

also, just because you're not for "gun control" laws, doesn't mean you don't care about little kids. It's not black and white, or red or blue.

 

[SAJ-99]

also, just because you're not for "gun control" laws, doesn't mean you don't care about little kids. It's not black and white, or red or blue.

Agree with all that being valid. And I think you would agree that believing that new gun laws won't have an impact is a different argument than not wanting to be inconvenienced.

 

[Shangobango]

2450 people on death row... of about ~1,400,000-1,900,000 people in prison (depends on how you define it)


The redline is the war on drugs.
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Pretty evident that if we do away with the war on drugs we could free up some space for a lot more of the violent criminals that should not be on the streets.

 

[FairWeather]

Good list @VikingsGuy. I’d vote yes if this was a ballot measure. Only thing I’d really alter is the $1000 have the caveat of being earmarked to keep up with inflation rates.

I particularly like the funding allocation for low income areas. The proven single largest correlating factor for high crime is high poverty. If we want to reduce crime (violent or otherwise) we MUST reduce poverty.

 

[ImBillT]

Interestingly, the NRA convention happening tomorrow is a gun free zone for attendees. You'd think that would be the one place where a good guy with a gun could stop the bad guy with a gun. Guess not thou.

Looks like you were contradicted.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm curious what the Second Amendment absolutists would say to the Framer's of the Constitution (John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington) if we could time travel them to 2022 and try to explain to them how 19 dead children and 2 dead teachers is all part of an inalienable right? Would they still right it as they did?

The framers would ask why the school staff wasn’t allowed to bear arms, and why anyone thought they could depend on government for personal protection.