A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

[4ohSick]

The time of middle ground politics has passed….

All we have now is the extreme on each side which leads to grid lock. That’s probably better than either extreme getting their way.

The common thing with almost all of these events is soft targets.

The unlocked door at the school needs to be investigated. That small delay could have made this situation end outside since it all started before entering the building.

Complacency kills….or so I was told in a few past careers.

Police engaged the shooter before he entered the school. They then waited 40 minutes to enter the school. The school also beefed up security in recent years. This was a situation where hardening the target wasn’t enough.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Jails are full and citizens don’t want to pay for more. The attempted privatization of the system led to a boatload of corruption (judges being paid to give jail time for example). That is primarily the reason.

We’re already tops for incarceration rate.

 

[SAJ-99]

We’re already tops for incarceration rate.

View attachment 223761

So maybe the thought we lock up the bad guys to solve this problem is a fantasy?

 

[VikingsGuy]

We’re already tops for incarceration rate.

View attachment 223761

 

[hank4elk]

Grandpa told me in 1968 that the US has always had about 25% total morons and another 10% criminally insane. The numbers seemed to have jumped in both cases....

 

[HandgunHunter]

Police engaged the shooter before he entered the school. They then waited 40 minutes to enter the school. The school also beefed up security in recent years. This was a situation where hardening the target wasn’t enough.

He entered through an unlocked door….that’s not security.

 

[longbow51]

We’re already tops for incarceration rate.

View attachment 223761

I'm guessing many of those countries on the list have alternatives to locking them up.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Grandpa told me in 1968 that the US has always had about 25% total morons and another 10% criminally insane. The numbers seemed to have jumped in both cases....

A buddy’s dad used to tell us that “90% of the people in the world are assholes and they’re gaining on us”. That stood for 4 decades as the best asshole wisdom I had ever been given. But then last year @Ben Lamb topped it with, “the problem is not that he is an asshole - everybody is an asshole - the problem is that he is not your kind of asshole”.

 

[Irishman]

Living in a society where every school has its doors locked and has armed guards stationed, doesn't sound much like freedom to me.

 

[Shangobango]

Interestingly, the NRA convention happening tomorrow is a gun free zone for attendees. You'd think that would be the one place where a good guy with a gun could stop the bad guy with a gun. Guess not thou.

False.

 

[shootbrownelk]

That is bordering on a snarky trope. Better to offer thoughts on what we could do about Chicago gun violence or some thoughts about how gun controls in one city are pointless in a sea of lesser controls.

So, I nailed it huh?

 

[longbow51]

After hearing the LEO reports maybe we don't need retired police, but retired military with operational experience who are used to rushing toward gunfire.

Also, this is interesting; not exactly a conservative news outlet:

Sorry, Despite Gun-Control Advocates' Claims, U.S. Isn't The Worst Country For Mass Shootings

It's become common to hear after a U.S. shooting tragedy that America is more violent than nations in heavily gun-controlled Europe. It's just another myth.

www.investors.com

 

[SAJ-99]

Living in a society where every school has its doors locked and has armed guards stationed, doesn't sound much like freedom to me.

Agree but do You have kids? I feel better with the security at my kid’s school than if it wasn’t there. At some point we have to make an effort not to worry about protecting some idealized world that doesn’t exist, and probably never did. I had armed LEOs at my high school in the 80’s. So not exactly a new phenomenon.

 

[homers]

I just listened to two different guests (experts on this type of violence) on Adam Carolla's podcast, Part 1 Dr. Marc Zimmerman and Dr. Marisa Randazzo (May 26). They both (different orgs) study mass shootings, root causes and what could be done to reduce them. Worth the 25 minutes to listen

 

[RealMuddyboots]

That's kinda the issue though right? Say you were an FBI deputy director with a time machine, you have to follow the law you can't act as a vigilantly. What could you actually do?

You can't hold people if they haven't commit a crime, you cant commit them indefinitely most states a MD can put someone under a 72 hour hold max. Minors can't purchase guns legally, so red flag rules don't apply. You can't subject a parent to a red flag law because of a child even in the states that allow them. etc etc etc.

The point you are making comes up a lot but any legislative fixes are usually vigorously opposed.

What would you have a LEO do?

You are 100% correct UNLESS the same threat is made towards a government official. What would their response be if this threat was made toward the President? Seal Team 6 would be at your door. If someone makes such a published threat, at least prohibit the purchase of a firearm. Will it stop 100% No but good start. Anyone who makes a published threat IMO is looking for help which is being ignored.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Statistics always require some context.

Mass Shootings by Country 2022

 

[Randi]

You may be correct IF we start actually enforcing laws and incarcerating violent offenders for a very long time. But, that doesn't seem to be the case right now. Violent offenders are walking and folks (lots of women and former anti-gun folks included) are arming themselves at record rates.

So, make it safer, and, you're right, maybe folks wouldn't see guns as essential. But, you can't have increasingly wanton lawlessness and disarm the populace.

And you and I may be the only two people who ever went to college who never smoked a joint. I trust neither of us owned slaves either. Quite different from the purpose of the Second though.

So, fix the violent crime problem first. Somewhere between my mandatory 3-5 years for crime with a firearm, to Randi's 15-20, and can't remember exactly who posted (forgive me, long thread) death penalty for same and then maybe we'll disarm.

Then, OTOH, I think about the war in Ukraine, where they begged for guns and ammo against an invading force. For civilians.

The "it can't happen here" rings a little false in these days of the Ministry of Truth.

And just to rant, we have a President who has been in the Senate since Christ was a mess cook who thinks the Second Amendment is about deer hunting.

I had not intended to post again on this thread, but after receiving a couple of polite notes, basically stating their surprise that someone young and female, to have such a harsh outlook toward criminals.

I also notice several have indicated on this thread that the jails are full and that we have the highest incarceration population in the world

O.K. ? Neither of those facts deter me from wanting criminals off the streets. I have never seen a gun on the street committing a crime that wasn't attached to a person. We need to get the criminals of the streets and the guns will follow them.

I am even willing to negotiate with the gentleman whose post I quoted. How about ten years ?

And, as far as the jails being full, some of this can be eliminated by following through on the sentence they received -Death. Who here supports Manson being given a death sentence in 1972 and dying of old age a few years ago ? Maybe send a billion less to Ukraine in an effort to get criminals off the street and into jail.

I dont think this is a young/old, right/left, male/female problem. Fund the police, arrest the criminals, eliminate "no bail", and if found guilty of a crime using a gun, a minimum of ten years ( and more including death, depending on the crime )

To end this post on a more humorous note: A couple years ago during a group discussion about crime in America, one of the other members in the group said, after I finished speaking : You remind me of that old movie Tombstone when Kurt Russel said, " you tell them I.m coming and hell is coming with me"

Again, this is respectively submitted and obviously not many here agree with me, but I want to thank Longbow51 for giving me an opportunity to show I do have compassion. Lets go down to 10

 

[Nick87]

Agree but do You have kids? I feel better with the security at my kid’s school than if it wasn’t there. At some point we have to make an effort not to worry about protecting some idealized world that doesn’t exist, and probably never did. I had armed LEOs at my high school in the 80’s. So not exactly a new phenomenon.

At my step son's 8th grade graduation last night. Police officer was there just like he is everyday of school. Makes me feel good honestly. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[Dave N]

I had not intended to post again on this thread, but after receiving a couple of polite notes, basically stating their surprise that someone young and female, to have such a harsh outlook toward criminals.

I also notice several have indicated on this thread that the jails are full and that we have the highest incarceration population in the world

O.K. ? Neither of those facts deter me from wanting criminals off the streets. I have never seen a gun on the street committing a crime that wasn't attached to a person. We need to get the criminals of the streets and the guns will follow them.

I am even willing to negotiate with the gentleman whose post I quoted. How about ten years ?

And, as far as the jails being full, some of this can be eliminated by following through on the sentence they received -Death. Who here supports Manson being given a death sentence in 1972 and dying of old age a few years ago ? Maybe send a billion less to Ukraine in an effort to get criminals off the street and into jail.

I dont think this is a young/old, right/left, male/female problem. Fund the police, arrest the criminals, eliminate "no bail", and if found guilty of a crime using a gun, a minimum of ten years ( and more including death, depending on the crime )

To end this post on a more humorous note: A couple years ago during a group discussion about crime in America, one of the other members in the group said, after I finished speaking : You remind me of that old movie Tombstone when Kurt Russel said, " you tell them I.m coming and hell is coming with me"

Again, this is respectively submitted and obviously not many here agree with me, but I want to thank Longbow51 for giving me an opportunity to show I do have compassion. Lets go down to 10

Keep speaking your mind. You're not wrong.

 

[longbow51]

I had not intended to post again on this thread, but after receiving a couple of polite notes, basically stating their surprise that someone young and female, to have such a harsh outlook toward criminals.

I also notice several have indicated on this thread that the jails are full and that we have the highest incarceration population in the world

O.K. ? Neither of those facts deter me from wanting criminals off the streets. I have never seen a gun on the street committing a crime that wasn't attached to a person. We need to get the criminals of the streets and the guns will follow them.

I am even willing to negotiate with the gentleman whose post I quoted. How about ten years ?

And, as far as the jails being full, some of this can be eliminated by following through on the sentence they received -Death. Who here supports Manson being given a death sentence in 1972 and dying of old age a few years ago ? Maybe send a billion less to Ukraine in an effort to get criminals off the street and into jail.

I dont think this is a young/old, right/left, male/female problem. Fund the police, arrest the criminals, eliminate "no bail", and if found guilty of a crime using a gun, a minimum of ten years ( and more including death, depending on the crime )

To end this post on a more humorous note: A couple years ago during a group discussion about crime in America, one of the other members in the group said, after I finished speaking : You remind me of that old movie Tombstone when Kurt Russel said, " you tell them I.m coming and hell is coming with me"

Again, this is respectively submitted and obviously not many here agree with me, but I want to thank Longbow51 for giving me an opportunity to show I do have compassion. Lets go down to 10

Ten is good.