30 Day Background Check

wllm1313

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@wllm1313 I’m no techy (I’m a descendent of the hanging Chad era) and I get that budgets do what budgets do but 30days? That’s a long way from nearly instantaneous. I’ve never needed a firearm quickly either myself, more prone to analysis paralysis when making those type decisions. But again, what database system is TSA checking on in this age of terrorism that allows me on a plane full of people miles in the air with a swipe of my drivers license? Seems like there would be something in between instant and a month? Dunno but....
Here is a noodle baker for me...

So turbo tax is just a big algorithm. Inputs --> if, then statements --> results. For every source of income I have I have a form 1099, W-2 etc, for every deduction another form 1098 etc. These are all sent to the IRS.

WHY DO I HAVE TO DO MY OWN TAXES

Shouldn't the irs just have a program crunches the number sends me a bill or a refund and then if I disagree I can send in a form contesting it?

So yes government system, healthy amount of skepticism.

For the record I think most background checks should clear at the register, and 30 days seems egregious, but there is also a lot I don't know, case and point the comments above about sales going through and then having to be canceled.
 

utah400elk

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What are the fines/jail terms for a prohibited person trying to buy a gun? Why not punish the person rather than give another faceless agency more power to do whatever they wish to slow gun sales? The track record on transparency of our alphabet agencies hasn't been stellar.
Which faceless agency are you referencing?

Punishing the person is not a simple as you might think. The laws are cut and dry but the prosecution is not.

I have explained the process. This is not what people want to make it out to be. There are a lot of issues at play. Medical records that indicate a person is a drug user or adjudicated mentally defective are not available to LE without a subpoena. HIPAA laws are complex. Military records (dishonorable discharge) are not easy to get for LE.

NICS works as quickly as possible to clear these. I am not defending NICS. There are significant issues with their system that needs to be addressed. Additionally, there are “point of sales” state wherein the background check is actually conducted by the state and not the “alphabet agencies”. Many of the “point of sales states” simply don’t understand federal prohibitors.

With more than a quarter century in LE and more than 40 years as a hunter, I can say it’s not a simple as people like to make it out to be.
 

wllm1313

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Additionally, there are “point of sales” state wherein the background check is actually conducted by the state and not the “alphabet agencies”. Many of the “point of sales states” simply don’t understand federal prohibitors.
20 States I believe.
 

kylemcintyre67

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None of this holds water with me. Given the state of current technology the 3 day thing is absurd. We shouldn't be debating about extending it. We should be holding the gov agencies feet to the fire on why it still takes that long at all. Why the heck are we still acting like 6-9 months wait time on NFA approvals is an acceptable state of affairs? That should be a point of sale transaction, especially given the $200.00 extra the feds take on those. It's 2021, we the people shouldn't be burdened with the inefficiencies of a bloated and backwards bureaucracy.
 

jejack26

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Which faceless agency are you referencing?

Punishing the person is not a simple as you might think. The laws are cut and dry but the prosecution is not.

I have explained the process. This is not what people want to make it out to be. There are a lot of issues at play. Medical records that indicate a person is a drug user or adjudicated mentally defective are not available to LE without a subpoena. HIPAA laws are complex. Military records (dishonorable discharge) are not easy to get for LE.

NICS works as quickly as possible to clear these. I am not defending NICS. There are significant issues with their system that needs to be addressed. Additionally, there are “point of sales” state wherein the background check is actually conducted by the state and not the “alphabet agencies”. Many of the “point of sales states” simply don’t understand federal prohibitors.

With more than a quarter century in LE and more than 40 years as a hunter, I can say it’s not a simple as people like to make it out to be.
I must be confused. The current system is designed to prevent convicted felons fromm purchasing firearm and my understanding the bill was to allow up to 30 days for the process. HIPAA compliance and military records? Is that include in the proposed legislation?
 

brownbear932008

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The background check should only take as long as it takes the system to spit out the yay or nay. No way 30 days are needed. It's not like they are sending Karen down to dig through archived paper files.
It normally does but you would be surprised how many Joe Smiths get delayed until someone can actually do basically this.
I feel 30 days is much much to long but a 5-7 day wait could help on a delayed response situation. I've heard of some real idiots getting firearms after the 3 days were up. Then you have the risk of LEOs going to retrieve said firearm and on occasion major operations being conducted that burns manpower and resources to safely do it.
 

brownbear932008

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Why the heck are we still acting like 6-9 months wait time on NFA approvals is an acceptable state of affairs? That should be a point of sale transaction, especially given the $200.00 extra the feds take on those. It's 2021, we the people shouldn't be burdened with the inefficiencies of a bloated and backwards bureaucracy.
Well honestly this all boils down to manpower versus the unbelievable amount of NFA items going through the last several years. (Supressors)
I myself am on the fence on those whether they should even be an NFA item because they are rarely found on criminals. But if they were legal that would 100% change I think also if they were readily available. The ATF has been hamstrung on budgets for many years compared to other DOJ agencies and do more with less. I actually left there because of it with no promotion potential. People believe that agency is just gun grabbers with all the NRA blabber and it couldn't be further from the truth in my experience. I saw darn good work there and some real violent criminals put away for many years the NRA won't tell ya that.
 

MarvB

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So what about the time to buy a silencer? Often 6-8 months at times according to my counter guy. Have never bought one but again is this time warranted or just a way to discourage the purchase?
 

SAJ-99

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None of this holds water with me. Given the state of current technology the 3 day thing is absurd. We shouldn't be debating about extending it. We should be holding the gov agencies feet to the fire on why it still takes that long at all. Why the heck are we still acting like 6-9 months wait time on NFA approvals is an acceptable state of affairs? That should be a point of sale transaction, especially given the $200.00 extra the feds take on those. It's 2021, we the people shouldn't be burdened with the inefficiencies of a bloated and backwards bureaucracy.
The systems don’t talk to each other. It would take more laws for that to happen and the people complaining about 30days would complain that it was first step to being able to track and seize guns. It has already been tried, and failed. Yes, the technology exists to do this check within a couple of minutes, but a lot of voters don’t want it to happen.
 

brockel

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Some of us don’t live where a 30 day wait is no big deal. “Hey your 30 day background check is done. Ok cool I’ll be in this afternoon”. Doesn’t work well for Baker Montana. Although we do have two places that carry a couple guns. One is an 80+ mile drive. Then I could make the 3+ hour drive to the next town with more gun stores.
30 day background check is ridiculous in today’s technological world
 

brownbear932008

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The systems don’t talk to each other. It would take more laws for that to happen and the people complaining about 30days would complain that it was first step to being able to track and seize guns. It has already been tried, and failed. Yes, the technology exists to do this check within a couple of minutes, but a lot of voters don’t want it to happen.
Yes most people don't realize the $200 tax stamp is covered under tax laws and that information is strictly protected under those laws.. That information is not even readily given to other law enforcement agencies ect.

It's my understanding this 30 day period is if you receive a delayed response from the check which is a tiny portion of checks percentage wise.
 

Pmacc60

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Yeah absolutely, my point is if I'm writing a letter to Michael Bennet I want to have a brief but well reasoned argument.

I'm asking for a discussion to help further that end. I will be writing a letter and making phone calls, as I did on Rep Jackson Lee's bill, I'm working on how I want to frame things up.

Given the nature of life it seems like 30 days is a pretty standard "get stuff done time frame".

Comparing to the DMV, I've never left a DMV without a license, but it has taken me around 30 days at time to get an appointment at a DMV.
The problem with all this is do we trust this as a honest intention to lower gun violence ? Do we have faith that the government will use the 30 days to research the perspective buyer ? Other than true law enforcement the government is pretty much ineffective at every level , I need only to point out the United States Post Office that given any excuse willl slow down to a crawl. Fed Ex and UPS are business as usual but try to get anything through the mail.

The facts are these laws are another attempt to keep the guns out of your hands. All one needs to do is access the FBI gun violence statistics and see that your hunting rifle, shotgun and get this AR-15 are responsible for very few deaths in this country so why are we wasting time money and effort to put a bill in to law that really in the true sense of society has no effect on the problem ? If it passes I will deal with it but why should I have to when it only inconveniences the legal buyer ? Please Hunt Talk members call your senator and congress person and ask them to vote no , please stop trying the be understanding to these people trying to take your rights to legally own and use firearms. Do not trust a party that stands lock step behind a president that is suffering from severely depleted mental faculties and can’t remember the point of his speech the day before ! He spoke on 500,000 dead and needed a card in his pocket to remember the number 500,000! There is something very wrong here , this law is a waste of time and will not save lives just cause us more effort to what we don’t commit crimes with ! I laugh at all this because the problem isn’t us the problem is how do we clean up drug crime and the violence it causes. Yes once in a while there is domestic violence or a mass shooting but it is a drop in the bucket to what happens in just 1 city! You all want to save lives start there and work your way out to the lesser problems!
 

CU93elkstalker

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I was in law enforcement as most of my family and many friends. Name it, and we’ve seen or heard it in regards to gun violence. 30 day wait period won’t change a thing. If a criminal or anyone intending harm wants a gun do you really think they are worried about a wait period. Nope, they are going to do what they need to get a gun. If the legislature only knew what guns are readily available on the “streets” they wouldn’t come up with silly legislation such as this. We need to focus more on enforcing the current gun laws and FULLY prosecuting crimes involving the use of a weapon.
 

LuketheDog

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Well honestly this all boils down to manpower versus the unbelievable amount of NFA items going through the last several years. (Supressors)
I myself am on the fence on those whether they should even be an NFA item because they are rarely found on criminals. But if they were legal that would 100% change I think also if they were readily available.

Suppressors+tax stamp are too expensive for the vast majority of the criminals out there, even if they were to become available straight off the shelf without the wait.
 

LuketheDog

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I was in law enforcement as most of my family and many friends. Name it, and we’ve seen or heard it in regards to gun violence. 30 day wait period won’t change a thing. If a criminal or anyone intending harm wants a gun do you really think they are worried about a wait period. Nope, they are going to do what they need to get a gun. If the legislature only knew what guns are readily available on the “streets” they wouldn’t come up with silly legislation such as this. We need to focus more on enforcing the current gun laws and FULLY prosecuting crimes involving the use of a weapon.

Nah, now you're making too much sense, democrats have heard all the sensical talking points regarding guns: criminals will still get them illegally, laws only affect law-followers, enforce the laws we already have, look at crime stats for England/Australia, etc., etc., yet they still beat the same old drums because it gets them votes every November.
 

Pmacc60

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I was in law enforcement as most of my family and many friends. Name it, and we’ve seen or heard it in regards to gun violence. 30 day wait period won’t change a thing. If a criminal or anyone intending harm wants a gun do you really think they are worried about a wait period. Nope, they are going to do what they need to get a gun. If the legislature only knew what guns are readily available on the “streets” they wouldn’t come up with silly legislation such as this. We need to focus more on enforcing the current gun laws and FULLY prosecuting crimes involving the use of a weapon.
Thank you ! I hope everyone reads what you wrote and thinks about it.
 

MarvB

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I thought that ATF received an influx of supplemental budgeting after 9-11 via the various homeland security policies? My hunting buddy’s daughter work for HC (or whatever they renamed it) and said they are sitting pretty well these days in staffing and tech. Course she might be misled.
 

FAIR CHASE

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Yes most people don't realize the $200 tax stamp is covered under tax laws and that information is strictly protected under those laws.. That information is not even readily given to other law enforcement agencies ect.

It's my understanding this 30 day period is if you receive a delayed response from the check which is a tiny portion of checks percentage wise.

$200 in 1934 was a chunk of change (2021 $3900).
 
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