.243 for elk

[huntme]

I've changed my stance on what is really needed for killing elk over the years. For many years I shot a 30/06, killed a pile of elk with one. Shot a pile more with a .338. Shot a pile more with a 7 RM...along the way I killed a few with a .243, 300 Win.

The ONE thing that has leveled the playing field more than anything else, in paricular with sub 30 caliber rounds, is BULLETS. The host of good bullets on the market these days has made elk rifles/cartridges out of many that were deemed "too light" not that many years ago, mainly due to poor selection of bullets.

When I started hunting in 1979, there wasnt barnes x, there wasnt accubonds, swift a-frames, many smaller calibers didnt even have partitions available.

Old school thinking dies hard...I'm probably more bull-headed than anyone when it comes to what I feel an elk rifle should be...and why I shot the .338 exclusively for many years. That opinion was based off my experiences with remington core-lok bullets, thin jacketed federal factory ammo, sierra and speer soft points, etc.

The bullet selection now is incredible, and anyone that still believes a 300 magnum or 338 is needed to reliably kill elk is living in the past, the very definition of an anachronism. I've changed my mind, based on experience with smaller caliber rifles on all sorts of game, and also based on the vast improvement and availability of quality bullets.

The .243, despite what many claim on here, is an adequate elk round...assuming the nut behind the trigger understands bullet selection is the "key", and that they can reliably hit what they're aiming at, within the realm of sane hunting ranges...and thats well past 100 yards.

IMO, elk hunters would be much better served if they spent more time scouting elk, learning how to hunt elk, and accurately shooting their rifles than getting bogged down in the minutia of cartridge selection.

Its also my experience that rifles that are fun to shoot...they get shot a lot more. The more comfortable a person is with a rifle, the better shot you're likely to make on an animal when the chips are down.

I find very, very, very few casual hunters that can shoot a .338 better than they can a 25/06, 7-08, or 243. Go to the rifle range before elk season...HOLY CHIT! Its a joke, guys shooting 300 RUM's, 300 wby, 300 winmags, 338 UM's, etc. who can hardly stay on paper with them at 100 yards. Flinching, adjusting scopes after ever shot. I'm sure they were told by someone that you need a cannon for elk. I had a guy this year at the range, who couldnt shoot his 300 winchester for chit, look at my target I shot with my 7-08 and tell me, "well, its accurate, no question, but I wouldnt hunt elk with it"...OK. But, he found his 300 WM "sighted in" and "good to go" with a target that looked more like a 30 caliber turkey pattern experiment gone wrong than a rifle target.

IMO, most elk hunters are in way over their heads with the rifles they use to shoot at elk, and that, likely results in more wounded and lost animals than from a guy that knows his "too small" or "too light" rifle,and shoots it well.

The 3 most important things to killing any animal is shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement.

some of these points are well taken,at least by me,but!!!!!!there is such a thing as to light a round to do the job in a ethical manner,just like there is such thing as too large a round for the job,case in point,50-cal BMG,it will kill anything on the planet,anything that bleeds that is,is it a good elk round?
NO.
why not?because you would destroy a lot of meat,im only using this example to make a point,and my point is the 243 round is not a good elk killing round,and this is my own opinion,but as you can tell by the comments on this subject,a lot of other hunters are trying to convey the same message.
just my 2 cents.:hump:

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Also, any parent that is allowing a youngster with buck fever (buck fever doesnt cure itself because you're holding a larger caliber rifle), to shoot 400 yards at bull elk...with any weapon, is failing as a hunting mentor. A true hunting mentor doesnt set a young hunter up for failure, they set them up for success. YMMV...

I couldn't have said it better Buzz.

Some of the arguments on here are bordering on the ridiculous.

If I was told I could have unlimited ammo, unlimited gas money, and unlimited elk tags from here till my dying day, and the only caveat was I could only use a .243 I wouldn't even think twice. A piss poor shot with a big gun is still a piss poor shot.

 

[1_pointer]

I'm with Buzz on the mentoring, cartridge selection, and bullet selection. Oh and to make my point again regarding the fallacy of "energy", I'd gladly hunt elk with a 125-130gr bullet out of a 30-06...as long as it was a Barnes (T)TSX. It'd have the same "energy" as the varmint bullet if fired at the same speed, but would be much more suitable for elk.

 

[1_pointer]

I said a little bigger bullet if the shot is past 150 yards. Like a 7mm-08 or 25-06. I'll repeat myself, for the 5th time, I think a 243 is fine for limited ranges for a youth. But not at 400+ yards IMO, to each his own. This is going no where because you fellas can't read correctly and bring up situations and scenarios that don't even make sense, like comparing a tiny 30 caliber varmint bullet that no one uses to shoot at elk versus a well constructed bonded elk bullet.

Regarding the "bigger" 25-06. The fastest load on the Nosler website for a 25-06, 110gr AB combo is 3267fps. The fastest load for the 243, 100gr Partition is 3144fps. 10 extra grains at an extra 123fps must mean a whole lot... So much so that my ballistic calculator calculates the "energy" as 0. That would almost make one think that one is about as good as the other...

BTW, I never said anything about range. I did post a video of a 243 working quite well at long range. Regardless, it's a moot conversation since a 7-08 was purchased, which is a good choice as well.

 

[noharleyyet]

Next up...the obsolescence of the 30-06..wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[1_pointer]

Is that why you bought a 300 WSM?

 

[MtnWest]

Next up...the obsolescence of the 30-06..wash, rinse, repeat.

That cartridge is so old and slow it can't do anything better than say a.... .243

 

[noharleyyet]

Is that why you bought a 300 WSM?

"I was country before country was cool."

 

[MtnWest]

Even a Texan knows what it takes to kill animals that are ever evolving. An elk from 1906 is not the same as in the 2000's...

 

[noharleyyet]

You sir, are correct. Not to be mistaken for the double negative hyperbole 'SAUM' rendering.

 

[mtmuley]

You guys sure a WSM or SAUM will kill elk? mtmuley

 

[noharleyyet]

...triple sure..mule deer also.

 

[spook12]

You guys sure a WSM or SAUM will kill elk? mtmuley

I'm with muley on this one, I require proof of concept. A nice long math equation will suffice.

 

[deer_shooter]

Next up...the obsolescence of the 30-06..wash, rinse, repeat.

30-06? they still make them?

 

[MtnWest]

You guys sure a WSM or SAUM will kill elk? mtmuley

Not sure, if I had to guess the SAUM is a little short (pun intended) on capacity... The words Ultra and Magnum in the name compensate for it's shortcomings though.

Only killed one animal with a rifle personally so a grain of salt is required. I'm a bowhunter with a soft spot for guns as my dad built rifles and owned a gun shop with my grandpa for 25 years. My one animal was killed with a (drum roll)... 30-06! I later found out why he died with one shot from fish and game so here's the equation I plugged into excel to help me.

Year of harvest (2012) minus critter's age (not of the hunt talk fame) (15) equals year of birth. So (2012-15)=1997 and 1997 is in the 1900's so an old fuddy duddy '06 shooting a 165<3,000fps (2875 chrono'd) met the requirements. Whew! This is what happens when both kids are in school and I have time to goof off.

Pic of dad with said 30-06 bear. Bullet mushroomed perfectly I think? It's in the Payette nat forest up no tellum creek if someone wants to weigh it. Not even bonded or VLD amazingly. For the record and sake of this thread I would have taken a .243 if I owned one

 

[belly-deep]

That does raise red flags, thanks. If you compare more similar calibers and bullets it does make more sense though, and I wonder if it's more applicable when comparing something like a .243 partition vs. .25-06 partition vs. .270 partition.

I didn't want to get in an argument with anyone, I just have a hard time seeing mocking someone over saying they think you should get close and make sure you have more than enough power.

Well since energy is biased toward velocity, sure, it is probably more useful in comparing cartridges with roughly the same velocity.

For the record, I don't think a .243 is a better elk gun than a 7mm-08 or 30-06. But I'm not sure it is as inferior as everyone claims. I have a friend in his 50's who has killed an elk or two every year for the last few decades with a .243. He started shooting one not as a stunt, but because he was recoil sensitive. He claims his first 18 elk fell to one shot each. That was back in the 1980's.

I've decided instead of trying to make guesses based on my experience with larger calibers (for the record I killed an elk this year with a .300 Wby.) I'm going to try killing one with a .243 and make judgment after. I ordered a bunch of 95gr Partitions from shooters pro shop today.

 

[mtmuley]

I stood next to a friend that shot two bulls with a .243. One was never recovered, the other I finished. I'll keep using my RUM, no need to see for myself again. mtmuley

 

[ERMINE]

I'm digging this thread. I have to say I am on the .243 is enough juice for elk. I have seen deer shot with a .556 in the shoulder with a 77gr BTHP and not go more than 50 yards which in my book seems equivalent. I am also thinking of buying a .243 for the girls to shoot deer, antelope and an occasional elk.

So, now that we have established it will kill elk, what are the loads that people HIGHLY recommend for shooting them?

 

[ERMINE]

I stood next to a friend that shot two bulls with a .243. One was never recovered, the other I finished. I'll keep using my RUM, no need to see for myself again. mtmuley

I've seen lots of "great shots" bang up animals with big calibers.

 

[mtmuley]

Big calibers in the hands of a great shot work well. Just giving my personal eyeball experience with the .243 and elk. mtmuley