2011 MT legislature

[RockyDog]

http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/health_2011/MTAL.Rehberg.pdf

In addition to many antisportmen bills this year there is one bill that will hit my family particularly hard if passed, Repeal of health care reform. My six year old son was born with cystic fibrosis. We have good jobs and my son is very health right now. If the republicans are successful in repealing health care reform, it could have drastic impacts on our family down the road.

For example, a 25 year old female UM student from my town will lose her health insurance if this bill passes. She has testified in Helena. Why? Because with reform she could be insured under parents until 26 and insurance companies could not impose a lifetime coverage limit on her. She received a lung transplant three years ago, I believe she exceeds the 1 million cap so if republicans ban health care reform in Montana, her ability to be insured will simply stop. You can consider that either a death sentence or an eviction to another state in her case.

Ironically, rheberg public ally awarded this young woman for her accomplishments in 2002.http://rightmontana.com/dennyrehberg/2002/11/

Apparently Rhebergs hipocracy has no bounds.

If you are blessed to never have a child born with a disease, then maybe this repeal makes sense to you. In our case, it is frightening. Health care costs could someday destroy us and impact my son's life span, which I expect to be well into his 40s or 50s unless we can't get the insurance he needs.

 

[belly-deep]

Sorry to hear about your son, but I don't think this is an appropriate thread for a hunting forum.

 

[BuzzH]

Since when is the truth not appropriate? I hunt and I care about other hunters and their families and how this type of ridiculous legislation will impact them.

It shows the hypocracy and the lack of a giving a shit that Denny Rheberg and his fellow Republicans show toward the peasants....unbelievable.

But, on the good side, Rhebergs rich buddies, who can afford health care, will get another tax break to ensure they have another million in the bank and that 3rd vacation home. By trying to do away with the stream access law, those same rich buddies wont have to bothered watching a Father take his sick son fishing past that 3rd vacation home.

The callousness...hell I wont sugar-coat, the meanness of the R's these days never fails to impress...

 

[RockyDog]

thanks Buzzh.

There is a reason i posted this in "Fireside (a place for friends)" and not in a hunting thread.

Eventually any hunter can hear a doctor speak those words that will change life forever. I think this is worth sharing in case it ever effects health insurance of anyone here or the ones they love.

 

[Brudno]

Heaven forbid he and republicans try to repeal, an unconstitutional law. Or try to reign in costs that this health care bill drives up. Majority of America wants to see it repealed, the majority of America screamed that at the top of there lungs and it passed. Majority of America told the dems to go pound sand in November. But in the end, they dont have the votes to repeal it, and justice will be served in the Supreme Court of the US which in all likelihood will side with the constitution.

Sorry about your son, but we are talking about insurance, you cannot force companies to insure hish risk liabilites and expect them to stay in busisness right? I think we can all agree on that. They run a business not a charity right? They have people to employ, bills to pay, and stock holders to be accountable too. If there not making a profit they go under.

Of course that brings us to what Obama care is about, even with his tainted idealogies, he understands that concept, so what his solution force for profit companies to insure everyone, regardless of age employment, liability etc. Now the options for controlling costs to make sure those companies who arent profiting any longer under those circumstances, is to raise the rates of everyone across the board, and force those who do not buy insurance to pay as well. Cleary there is an issue with this as well.

I dont think anyone is saying the old way was perfect we know its not. But Obama care is far worse than what we had. Which is why the actual taxes of the bill have started already and the actual changes wont start until what 2014? This bill drives up the costs of health care for everyone and further hinders any economic recovery.

Buzz wants to talk truths, but leaves out the otherside. It really doesnt have anything to do with "meanness" unless maybe you subscribe to class warfare and socialism.

 

[A-con]

In my opinion, the proper place for this thread is;

*Politics and Opinions*

RockyDog, you are welcome to your opinion, but there are a lot of people who believe that once the Obama care law is fully implemented, your son, the UM student and millions of other people will be worse off, not better because of it.
Within my immediate family, there are some medical problems that are proving to be very costly, and have the potential to shorten the life of those afflicted. I have taken on the financial responsibility for these problems, and if Obama care could deliver even half of what it promised, it would be a huge windfall for me. After looking at this law, and how it was written and passed I have come to the conclusion that it can’t deliver.
Best wishes for your son, but be careful what you wish for.

 

[BuzzH]

Brudno,

Nothing more honest than an insurance company....right about on par with honest politicians.

If you think Denny Rheberg cares about the consitutionality of what he's doing...you better drop the bong and join us back in reality. He'd sell the Constitution to China if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[RockyDog]

Will someone please move this thread to Politics? I didnt see that section.

I wont be told that white is black. Health care reform may not be perfect, but it is an improvement over what was.

In this case, there is a 25 year old girl who received a lung transplant, but needs to be on antirejection medicines the rest of her life. If health reform is repealed she will be cutoff from health insurance because insurance companies cap liftetime coverage at $1million. If republicans repeal health care reform that is what will happen to her. This is real life.

Its all fine and dandy to spout that you can pay for health care better out of your own pocket, but thats not the truth when you get hit with the cancer or need an organ transplant. For example my sons medical costs are over $40k per year and some day we need a transplant.

 

[belly-deep]

Since when is the truth not appropriate?

Truth is never inappropriate, but it has its places. This is a hunting based site. If someone wants to tell me who to vote for on a hunting-related issue that is fine. I don't, however, come here to tell people how to vote or be told how to vote on pure political topics. There are a ton of places to discuss pure politics on the net, and so rockydog certainly has a forum to express himself on elsewhere.

 

[Brudno]

Will someone please move this thread to Politics? I didnt see that section.

I wont be told that white is black. Health care reform may not be perfect, but it is an improvement over what was.

In this case, there is a 25 year old girl who received a lung transplant, but needs to be on antirejection medicines the rest of her life. If health reform is repealed she will be cutoff from health insurance because insurance companies cap liftetime coverage at $1million. If republicans repeal health care reform that is what will happen to her. This is real life.

Its all fine and dandy to spout that you can pay for health care better out of your own pocket, but thats not the truth when you get hit with the cancer or need an organ transplant. For example my sons medical costs are over $40k per year and some day we need a transplant.

Noone says its fair you've been dealt a bad hand, but your missing the complete definition of insurance and what its purpose is. Your premiums and dedeductabiles dont pay for your sons health cares costs. They are then spread to everyone else, what happens to rates as a whole, when you morph an insurance company into a bill payment service? Society as whole cannot afford that, anymore than we can afford any more of the entitlment programs now offerd.

Its like buying auto insurance after an accident or totalling your car out every year, and expecting the insurance company to cover it and it not affect your premium.

Like I said before if you run your business like that, you wont be in business for long. If your going to have the federal government interject themselves and have them tell companies thats how there going to run there business, rates go up dramatically for everyone, you know longer really have insurance, and change the type and quality of health care you can offer for worse.

 

[BuzzH]

belly-deep,

The truth is appropriate...everywhere...anytime.

Rockydog,

Thanks for having the stones to show compassion...many here are lacking same.

 

[BuzzH]

Cool Brudno...profits trump life...sweet.

Just curious...WTF good is insurance that doesnt cover jack shit? Sounds akin to using a strainer for an umbrella.

 

[belly-deep]

Will someone please move this thread to Politics? I didnt see that section.

I wont be told that white is black. Health care reform may not be perfect, but it is an improvement over what was.

In this case, there is a 25 year old girl who received a lung transplant, but needs to be on antirejection medicines the rest of her life. If health reform is repealed she will be cutoff from health insurance because insurance companies cap liftetime coverage at $1million. If republicans repeal health care reform that is what will happen to her. This is real life.

Its all fine and dandy to spout that you can pay for health care better out of your own pocket, but thats not the truth when you get hit with the cancer or need an organ transplant. For example my sons medical costs are over $40k per year and some day we need a transplant.

There is no "Politics" section.

 

[BuzzH]

...so keep it in the fireside.

I dont think belly-deep is the hall monitor.

Also, there is a politics section.

 

[Brudno]

Cool Brudno...profits trump life...sweet.

Just curious...WTF good is insurance that doesnt cover jack shit? Sounds akin to using a strainer for an umbrella.

You think insurance companies are charity now? Do you work for pay or not? If you cant turn a profit you go out of business that simple. Most understand simple economics...

What do you think drives this nation? What do you think drives innovation? What do you think makes this nation so great? Capitalism. Insurance works fine, the example I gave dealing with auto insurance is a sterling example, if you cant relate that to how it correlates with health insurance, you should be having a different conversation.

There are many charites and many people that donate hundreds of millions every year to help people out, that were dealt bad hands, lots of them the "evil" rich and "terrible" insurance companies. You want to cover every hish risk group thats a novel idea, one we would all agree with, but most of us live in the real world and can understand what that means for premiums and healthcare quality as a whole.

 

[Big Fin]

I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, of government health care, etc.

But, it seems like if the law is Unconstitutional, it will be repealed by the courts, No? If it is truly unconstitutional, the Republicans need not repeal it, as that will take of itself at the USSC.

Not saying they won't repeal it or if it is, or is not, constitutional. I just always thought constitutionality is a judicial function, not a legislative function, Yes?

Most who read the bill, or subscribe to services that provide analysis of the bills, realize that a lot of blowing and carrying on is being made by both sides. From the side spouting all the problems it might potentially create and from the side promoting all the problems that it solves.

It will not solve all the proponents say, and it will not bring the doom that the opponents say. But, it sure has made for some good political gamesmanship. Again, from both sides.

The solutions to the problems of coverage and affordability are not addressed that well in this bill, as both sides don't want to take on the tough stuff. The tough stuff really isn't that tough, but it has a big money trail attached to it.

The group who is going to take it on the chin are the health care providers. How the medical associations got steam rolled so bad by insurance company lobbies, is beyond me.

We are really talking about insurance, both cost of insurance and access to insurance.

We are not talking about access to care, as in this country, we have access to care, even if you are uninsured. If you go to the ER, you are going to get taken care of, whether you are legal resident or illegal, rich or poor, dying or merely need a couple stitches.

Brudno have hit it on the head when he mentioned the insurance companies. I have a different spin on it than he does. Not saying I am right, just a different perspective.

And I am not talking about your local agent, but the big companies whose policies these agents sell and who insure the risk pools of groups.

Why does the insurance industry fight when the customer wants the ability to pool risk based on whatever group they decided, such a belonging to a church, attending a school, affiliation with a certain trade association, etc.?

More importantly, why do they fight so hard to prevent pooling of risk across state lines?

Why do they fight so hard to keep groups small as possible and as isolated as possible?

Pretty easy answer - Because they can make more profit that way and dissect their risk better that way. I don't blame them for wanting such laws to help their profits. I do blame politicians for bowing down to the insurance industry to accommodate these requests at the cost to the other side.

The insurance companies have driven this final health care bill more than any group. And because of that, they will come out smelling good.

The employers will take a hit, the employees will take a hit, the small agency will take a hit, the doctors will take a hit. You name it, most everyone takes a hit except insurance companies, drug companies to a lesser degree, and the trial lawyers.

I am all about insurance companies being able to make a profit. They are profit-based entities, but make them compete on a level playing field.

Don't pass laws that restrict pooling of risk. Pooling of risk helps the insured. The larger the pool, the lower the risk to any one individual and the lower the premium. The smaller the pool, the higher the risk, and the higher the premium.

Why government wants to intervene on behalf of insurance companies and keep risk pools smaller and more isolated, is beyond me. Well, not really beyond me. It is pretty simple. That is what helps the insurance companies who are some of their biggest donors.

Insurance is the pooling of risk and paying toward a common fund for such risk. That is why they call it insurance.

When you let one side of the risk equation write all the rules, guess who is going to win? The guy who is given the pen to craft the bill.

Sorry to hear about your son, Rocky Dog. I hope something can be worked out.

This entire insurance issue has become a big deal for me. I am uninsurable. Without being part of a group, no one will touch me. Not anything I did, just a condition I have.

So, I am part of a small group at my old CPA firm. My premium is $1,500 per month for me, wife, and son. It has a high deductible, no vision or dental coverage. I have to work "X" hours per week to maintain that coverage, though the Mayo recommends I not work that many hours. What to do? I work that many hours.

I would love to be part of a bigger group, but the insurance industry has passed laws where we cannot form groups across state lines. How messed up is that? Would lower the cost of MT groups, or groups in other rural places, if we could form national groups. But, right now, that is not allowed.

Why does the group have to be employer based, in most instances? Why can't we form insurance groups for other purposes or along other activities?

For those who do not meet the set work hour requirements due to health or a multitude of other issues, they end up on the outside looking in. They could probably afford some premium and contribute to the risk pool. But, by not having a group to belong to, they are completely priced out of the system.

Yet, when these people get sick or need care, they get it at the ER. Guess who pays for that? You and I, in the form of taxes, or costs passed on to us who are lucky enough to be in the system.

The insurance company sure doesn't pay for it. What a surprise.

I could self insure, the way some very large employers and unions do, but with 12 employees, self-insurance is not an option.

So, I am at the mercy of the insurance companies until someone in DC decides they are going to make the insurance companies play on a level field. This new bill is supposed to change a lot of things. It will help some, but not help others.

Nothing would solve more problems as easily as health insurance reform. Not health care reform, but health insurance reform.

And if health insurance companies need the ability to rate policy risk by smoking, alcoholism, drug use, obesity, or some other controllable condition such as life insurance companies do, that would be fine with me. But, for some reason I don't see that happening any time soon.

I don't mind paying my premiums. I am fortunate to be in a situation where I can afford it, but it hurts to pay that much each month.

There are much easier solutions to this, but the spineless lapdogs in DC will never take on the most obvious solutions. That would dry up the money trail from their Insider Friends.

When I read or hear rants about health care on either side, I either get pissed, or just tune it out. It is not as difficult to make progress toward a solution as the folks in DC make it.

It is just difficult if you put up the sideboards that you are not wiling to gore the ox of someone who is benefiting from the status quo.

I have ZERO sympathy for health insurance companies. They already have the table slanted so far to their benefit.

I guess the other part I find so amusing, or maybe hypocritical, is that the Republicans talk about smaller government, helping small business, and getting the government out of business, things a right of center guy like me can relate to. But when they get to DC, they sure are happy to open the doors to let their donors get a helping hand from government and lay the pipe to small business when push comes to shove.

Sorry for the rant. I might be completely out in the weeds on this one, and if so, I am sure someone will point out the error in my thinking. Just so fed up that we cannot move on toward true solutions, but rather use an issue as important as health insurance access as a means to carry out political ideals ..... on both sides.

And the Rocky Dog's of the world take the hit because of it.

 

[BuzzH]

Brudno,

Insurance works fine?

My aching ass it does...if it works so well, why is it in need of serious reform?

Insurance...they need to come up with a different name for what they "provide".

What a joke.

 

[Big Fin]

Will someone please move this thread to Politics? I didnt see that section.

This thread will stay right here, Rocky. It is not a political post. It is a good fireside topic. It will get political as we debate it, as the two parties have made this very important topic their currency for repaying their debts.

It will stay in this section. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Brudno]

Great post Randy about the risk pools especially regarding state lines. There needs to be reform from what we had in 2009. And from what we may get. That brings up not having a true free market when it comes to insurance, people would be much better off to be able to shop for there own insurance based on there needs or what they think there needs maybe, and then have companies compete for that busisness the same every other privately owned company operates. That is the basis of true health care reform IMO.

As far as all effort to repeal it, its simply what the majority of the people who sent the legislature to DC in 2010 want. My feeling is it will be ultimately repealed by the SCOTUS in the final challenge and confirm what the US district court in Florida already stated that in violates the commerce clause. But for politicans to make no effort to repeal it or defund it to the best of there abilities is to not to the will of the people that sent them to DC in the first place.

 

[drahthaar]

The worst thing about that health care reform bill is the fact that those voting for it never read it, don't have to subscribe to what it entails, and added so much other BS to it, it became a monster.

Talking about health care reform is a complete and utter waste of friggin time until you START with tort reform. You have to get the loiyas out of the equation, out of the doctor's and hospital's pockets!! We can't keep going down this path.

Let groups go across state lines to look for coverage! Isn't that part of capitalism? This could be huge to decrease cost, add that competition.