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2 Questions?

1_pointer

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1. Earlier in a post I read that Barnes bullets will shoot better if other bullets haven't been through the barrel. I think Ndak posted that. Now, if I am working with a brand new gun I shouldn't have any special cleaning to do before trying these right?? My reason for asking is that my dad saw on TV the XLCs and asked if I could load those up for him in a 30.06.

2. If I use a bullet such as a Barnes or a Winchester Failsafe, can I go down one weight and still expect the same penetration as a heavier lead core bullet??
 

BuzzH

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Question number one, I dont know, but it doesnt make sense that a gun would shoot better before or after firing another brand of bullet.

Question number 2, I doubt it. Usually the heavier bullets out penetrate the lighter ones, especially true of equally constructed bullet types.

The question I have is why drop bullet weight? Why own an '06 and shoot 150's? If you want to shoot 150's buy a 270. The 165's are for weiners who want a compromise.

In my opinion, and for most big-game hunting, I would say stick with 180's or even 200 grain nosler partitions. Cant beat the performance and they are tried and true.

But, whatever makes you happy.
 

Calif. Hunter

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I use 150's for California deer (a big one would go 130 - 150 pounds) and antelope. I agree that the 180 is the best "all-around" weight for the .30-06. Personally, I never saw much use for the 165 grain. I can load a 180 just about as fast as I can a 165 and I can load a 150 quite abit faster than a 165. Just my 2 cents.
 

1_pointer

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Buzz- That's why I'm asking the question. Barnes' and Win. Failsafes are not constructed the same as a partition, they do not use lead to expand. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.
 

danr55

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Regarding the Barnes bullets, this is what I read and why I believe that it makes sense. If you strip all of the residual copper from your bore before shooting Barnes X or Winchester Failsafe bullets, you should have less or no fouling problems. The reason being the gilding material used on common jacketed bullets is harder than the copper in the Barnes and Win. bullets. When left in the barrel, the residue causes the softer copper to pull away from the Barnes and Win bullets and creates a buiid up in the barrel. Much the same with a cut rifled barrel that is not lapped will gouge material from all bullets except the steel cased ones.

The penetration question is much more complicated than just a weight factor. Penetration is a combination of velocity, sectional density, and momentum. All of these things factor into calculating and bullets ability to penetrate any medium better than a heavier or light bullet of equivalent construction. Comparing a Barnes X with a standard lead core bullet is difficult. To answer your question directly, no, you cannot make that arbitrary change or assumption. If you want a complete break down I can provide it, but let me say this, it's always best to develop a load for each specific application of a rifle OR to develop a load for the most extreme application and use that load for everything.

It's kind of like Caribou hunting. Caribou are easy to kill. They don't require a big rifle. Why then do so many people hunt them with 338s? Well, becuase Caribou hunting can be like ringing a dinner bell for Mr. Griz. I certainly don't want to face him with nothing more than a .243 or a 7mm-08 if he is going to surprise me. :cool:
 

BuzzH

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Dan said, "Penetration is a combination of velocity, sectional density, and momentum."

This is true, but bullet construction, and bullet weight plays a huge part in penetration. Typically the heavier bullets will out-penetrate the lighter ones. Also, velocity can, in some cases, hinder penetration.

Don't be tricked into believing fuzzy math and formulas when it comes to ballistics.
Kind of like heating up a can of soup by a fire. The side may boil, the center is ice cold...never be fooled by side-boil.

Never be fooled by ballistics either. The surest way is to find out for yourself. Do some work and test your loads if possible. Seeing is believing. The results may suprise you.
 

danr55

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Buzz, I think you missed a key phrase in that post. "...of equivalent construction...". I will bet on 'fuzzy math', given equivalent construction, anytime. With bullets of the type being discussed, that being solid copper, overvelocity has little or no effect on performance. These bullets resist the "hyper velocity tendencies" much better than standard jacketed bullets. I don't think you could push one fast enough to make it explode or shatter at impact. At least not from a shoulder fired weapon. :cool:
 

BuzzH

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Danr55, all very true statements. I agree, just wanted to restate it more than anything.

I've seen some pi$$ poor results with the solid copper barnes X. Really poor and they nearly cost my buddy a bighorn ram. They never expanded at all on a broadside shot. He was shooting a 264 win. mag. He shot the ram 4 times, each left a 264 exit hole. He recovered one bullet, the last shot at around 350 yards. The ram was quartering toward him, he hit the point of the on shoulder, breaking it, and angled completely through the ram and broke the off-side hip. Damn good penetration, but that bullet wasnt even deformed at all. The very front of the bullet just barely started to expand, less than the diameter of the bullet.

I've never been brave enough to try them things after that little display. I'm not sure why they failed so bad. The long range shot I can kind of see (lack of velocity)but the 100 yard shots, theres no excuse for that.

It seems theres a strong love/hate relationship with barnes X, you can probably guess where I stand.
 

danr55

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Well to clarify that arguement if it needs it, I am on your side. I have never been fond of the X bullets, but I know folks who swear by them. Besides, I hate to jeopardize my stock in the Nosler Company. I am a firm believer in the Nosler Partition bullet for all game in North America. :cool:
 

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