Ziinke - Friend or Foe?

[BigHornRam]

With all due respect, BHR, you want to turn a discussion about the current Secretary of Interior into a bashing of someone now in the private sector.

If you want to defend Zinke, go for it. If you just want to bash Schweitzer, well, carry on.

Kind of funny how these threads evolve.. Just trying educate Buzz, hard job you know.

Back to Zinke. I agree with you Ben, we should keep an eye on him. He's been in Washington only a couple years and is already starting to develope an odor. Maybe that means we should keep a nose on him.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Keep an eye on him, and ho.d him & his boss accountable.

This is our land, but more importantly, it belongs to future generations as well.

 

[MTGomer]

There has been questionable business decisions made at Stillwater in the past from what I know, but their mines have an excellent environmental record (good geology helps) and they have a legally binding good neighbor agreement with local landowners and the Cottonwood Resource Council.
Most people think the Sibanye merger will be a good thing, but it's too early to tell. I'm assuming that will do away with the current BOD? I'm not sure.
As for Zinke, time will tell I suppose

 

[MTGomer]

Double post

 

[utahminer]

The only thing that protects claimed federal land from serious harm from extraction are local, state and federal regulations and designations. For example, to mine you must file a plan of operations that includes a plan on how to return the land to "pre-condition" when mining is completed. Or, the land can be protected by designation such as a National Monument, which limits or eliminates that mining.

I would strongly encourage folks to not give an inch to the corporations who what our Public Lands. Believe me, they don't need it to get all the minerals they want. Remember, they get your gold, your silver for almost nothing and could give a hoot about you having access to hunt Big Horn Sheep.

The worse thing hunters (and other sportsmen an women) can do is to fall into the trap of defending those companies - for what ever reason.

Just look at some of the statements of defense for them in this thread.

Mark - We need to be careful to not paint the "big" companies the bad reactors. The minor as well as the "mom and pops" companies are HUGE problems today. The majors understand the importance of a social license to operate. I agree that selling those lands are a bad idea. Leases are in the better interest of the general public. There is more governance for leases lands and access when the operation is complete. I know we all want more access during an operation, but we have to recognize that liability rules everything today. Companies can not afford the liability of having the public on the land. They have in the past and were burnt because some dipstick got hurt and sued.

Peabody Energy is not your friend, Exxon is not your friend. Necessary in the modern world, yes, but they are no friend to Public Lands advocacy.

That might be the case but the people that work for these companies are you friends. Support those that are fighting internally to reclaim and go above and beyond legal obligations. It is so frustrating to see the general public call and harass and environmental manager who is working his guts out to make things better. If the company screwed up, believe me, he or she knows. They are fighting to get every dollar they can to do what is right. Get behind those managers and give them good press. It helps provide momentum and enable them to continue improvement. I am speaking from experience.

Another suggestion. Both lefties and righties should dismount and walk together. What possible good comes from bashing California or Texas or Obama or Clinton or CCN or Fox News. Many will never find common ground there, but we certainly can find common ground on saving Public Lands.

I could not agree more. Thank you for saying this.

History proves the blog post is an anomoly, and not the general practise. I'm all for balance but industry spends millions every year to buy politicians so they can walk away from their responsibility.

However one instance of good behavior doesnt excuse 150 years of citizens having to clean up after industry.

Ben
I really respect a number of things that you have said, but please don't lump the entire industry in such statements. There are great companies doing wonderful work and cleaning up far more than their share because they know its the right thing to do. Yes the industry made some bad decisions in the past, but EVERY industry made bad decisions then. Just think how the general public thought it was fine to litter while driving or stop and take a leak along the road (seriously, when was the last time you saw someone taking a wizz? That used to be pretty common - makes me laugh just thinking about it). Unfortunately there are still some people that think we should be able to act in that manner, but the vast majority of the industry no longer thinks in that manner and hasn't for a long time.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben
I really respect a number of things that you have said, but please don't lump the entire industry in such statements. There are great companies doing wonderful work and cleaning up far more than their share because they know its the right thing to do. Yes the industry made some bad decisions in the past, but EVERY industry made bad decisions then. Just think how the general public thought it was fine to litter while driving or stop and take a leak along the road (seriously, when was the last time you saw someone taking a wizz? That used to be pretty common - makes me laugh just thinking about it). Unfortunately there are still some people that think we should be able to act in that manner, but the vast majority of the industry no longer thinks in that manner and hasn't for a long time.

I appreciate your thoughtful response and would note my experience with the oil, gas and mining industry comes from the side of the people who get the shaft when markets go bad (family layoffs, loss of work for friends, etc), who get cut loose while BOD's take huge payouts, etc. It also comes from seeing, over the last 15 years, industry avoid doing things correctly through a variety of ways ranging from direct lobbying of congress & the executive to eliminate winter drilling stips on critical winter habitat for deer & sage grouse, for suing to stop common-sense regulations like the methane rule, eliminate public participation in the regulatory process and funding politicians who are working tirelessly to eliminate public lands altogether.

As I've said, I'm all for developing resources needed and for the proper regulation therein. Unfortunately, due to the political machinations of industry groups and the CEO's of large & small companies, we end up with declining wildlife populations and declining habitat. That's probably more on the O&G industry than mining but still - it happens. Look at the lawsuits from mining on sage-grouse, for example.

I have family that still mines. I grew up in the O&G & construction industries. I've spent a lifetime looking at how they do business and a career holding them accountable for their actions. What has been consistent is that the industry seeks to limit their regulatory burden at the expense of wildlife & habitat, primarily on public land.

I fully understand those activities are not done by the entire industry, but those activities are carried out under the banner of industry trade-groups who claim to represent the entirety of industry. I've had coal lobbyists look me in the eye and tell me that the extinction of sage grouse should be viewed as god's will. I've had O&G execs tell me their seismic exploration in the Wyoming Range wouldn't hurt a thing, especially during hunting season.

I do appreciate the sincere dialog, and hope that my experiences are vastly different than others, but based off of my history, again, industry gets the gold mine, and citizens get the shaft. the AML program is a good example of that, as is self-bonding. Reclamation is law & industry must abide by it. Giving companies kudos for doing what they should be doing is awesome, and I do that, but I'm also not willing to ignore the political and historical realities that we are all still cleaning up. It's my land they want, afterall.

 

[MTGomer]

When that don't stop and take a whiz memo came out, I was not cc'd. Guilty as charged.

 

[Straight Arrow]

When that don't stop and take a whiz memo came out, I was not cc'd. Guilty as charged.

Me either ... and if you are fortunate enough to reach my age, then you won't be quite as concerned about any adverse consequences which may evolve from stopping (often suddenly and with desperation) and taking the relief-whiz. Please don't judge me ... as eventually you may become me.

 

[utahminer]

I appreciate your thoughtful response and would note my experience with the oil, gas and mining industry comes from the side of the people who get the shaft when markets go bad (family layoffs, loss of work for friends, etc), who get cut loose while BOD's take huge payouts, etc. It also comes from seeing, over the last 15 years, industry avoid doing things correctly through a variety of ways ranging from direct lobbying of congress & the executive to eliminate winter drilling stips on critical winter habitat for deer & sage grouse, for suing to stop common-sense regulations like the methane rule, eliminate public participation in the regulatory process and funding politicians who are working tirelessly to eliminate public lands altogether.

As I've said, I'm all for developing resources needed and for the proper regulation therein. Unfortunately, due to the political machinations of industry groups and the CEO's of large & small companies, we end up with declining wildlife populations and declining habitat. That's probably more on the O&G industry than mining but still - it happens. Look at the lawsuits from mining on sage-grouse, for example.

I have family that still mines. I grew up in the O&G & construction industries. I've spent a lifetime looking at how they do business and a career holding them accountable for their actions. What has been consistent is that the industry seeks to limit their regulatory burden at the expense of wildlife & habitat, primarily on public land.

I fully understand those activities are not done by the entire industry, but those activities are carried out under the banner of industry trade-groups who claim to represent the entirety of industry. I've had coal lobbyists look me in the eye and tell me that the extinction of sage grouse should be viewed as god's will. I've had O&G execs tell me their seismic exploration in the Wyoming Range wouldn't hurt a thing, especially during hunting season.

I do appreciate the sincere dialog, and hope that my experiences are vastly different than others, but based off of my history, again, industry gets the gold mine, and citizens get the shaft. the AML program is a good example of that, as is self-bonding. Reclamation is law & industry must abide by it. Giving companies kudos for doing what they should be doing is awesome, and I do that, but I'm also not willing to ignore the political and historical realities that we are all still cleaning up. It's my land they want, afterall.

Ben I REALLY appreciate your view. I just had a member of our community relations team in my office where we discussed potions of your post. As an industry there are bad actors, but there is SO much work done behind scenes that people do not see. I am pretty annoyed with the comments by two individuals mentioned above. They clearly don't understand all the work their people are doing to keep things moving ahead and the 100s of millions of dollars spent cleaning up legacy sites that where the "responsible parties" are picking up the tab for a bad actor in the industry who is no longer around.

I do agree that as citizens and sportsmen we need to keep a tab on industries and local governments and applaud you for all the work you are doing. Please keep up the good work

 

[utahminer]

When that don't stop and take a whiz memo came out, I was not cc'd. Guilty as charged.

HAHA

It has been a while since I have seen people pulled off the side of the road taking a whiz in the bar ditch. I remember doing it many of times when I was younger and my honking at others as we drove by. As a parent I have had to make a number of emergency stops for little ones with small bladders, but I have tried to be more discreet than when I was a kid.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben I REALLY appreciate your view. I just had a member of our community relations team in my office where we discussed potions of your post. As an industry there are bad actors, but there is SO much work done behind scenes that people do not see. I am pretty annoyed with the comments by two individuals mentioned above. They clearly don't understand all the work their people are doing to keep things moving ahead and the 100s of millions of dollars spent cleaning up legacy sites that where the "responsible parties" are picking up the tab for a bad actor in the industry who is no longer around.

I do agree that as citizens and sportsmen we need to keep a tab on industries and local governments and applaud you for all the work you are doing. Please keep up the good work

Thanks, and much appreciation. I hope industry continues to hire people such as yourself.

My experiences have jaded me, to be sure, but I recognize the right of all Americans to use our shared lands, even those who want to develop it - responsibly.

As for the wizzing on the side of the road, my whole family missed that memo.