Wyominng Bill-HB 0149

[Z Barebow]

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2015/Introduced/HB0149.pdf

I value BuzzH's insight on this one. I know it doesn't affect residents, I am not sure if this is the fix.

Unfortunately, I don't anticipate much opposition within the legislature. I can and will e-mail the sponsors, but since I am an NR I am not holding my breathe.

I recognize the legislature is doing everything they can to generate additional revenue. And if they can do it without impacting their constituency, (residents), they will view it as a win/win.

The G&F needs money. And they need more money than they have been getting. Resources/money for G&F funding has eroded over the years. I don't believe G&F receives much money from the general fund.

If the legislators are serious in funding G&F, I hope they have a multi pronged plan vs hitching their cart solely to the NR "horse".

ID and MT raised their NR fees and licenses are now unsold, which never happened before. (I know there are additional circumstances also). But the result is the same. Revenue shortfalls.

As an unintended consequence, I can foresee general units falling short of their NR hunter quotas. I do not believe LE units will be affected. Supply and demand. Time will tell. I suspect the legislature is willing to take the risk. But will they be willing to revisit the subject if this move blows up? I doubt it.

For deer and antelope, I fear the revenue results will be less rosy than for elk. (I say that as there is more competition for deer in the country. Although WY is a good state, I don't know if it the expense of special draw "good". For antelope, I suspect folks will be willing to pay for certain LE units, but I don't have a good feel for the mid to lower units as I have not studied antelope)

I love Wyoming and I hope to retire there some day. I see this as misdirected move by legislators to fix some of their previous mistakes. And I can foresee an outcome other than intended, and not in a good way.

Looking for residents and NR's to chime in. Thanks.

 

[gwhunter]

I read it, but feel like I'm missing out on something or it is referencing something that wasn't in the link you provided. Does this mean they are proposing to move more of the tags to the Special draw instead of the normally priced draw? I assume so, but you know how that works out...

 

[Z Barebow]

gw- My interpretation is the number of total NR tag allocations would stay identical to today. Special draw tags would be increased at the expense of reg draw tags.

 

[gwhunter]

gw- My interpretation is the number of total NR tag allocations would stay identical to today. Special draw tags would be increased at the expense of reg draw tags.

That's what I thought. As a person who is opposed to paying "extra" to try to get a tag I think this might move me closer to just paying the 1K for the elk/deer combo in Montana and hunting there instead of Wyoming. The drive is another half of a day from Indiana, but I think it would be worth it to have two big-game tags for the price of one elk tag in Wy.

 

[BuzzH]

Z-barebow,

Stay tuned, I will catch up with this soon...lots of bullchit going on,

 

[Z Barebow]

Thanks Buzz. Legislature in session. No small task to keep track of fire starters.

 

[NoWiser]

It kills me to see nonresidents getting the screws put to them even more. It's bad for us, it's bad for our kids, and it's bad for the future of our sport.

 

[sbhooper]

If I get my antelope points burned this year, I am done with trophy hunts in Wyoming or elsewhere. The money is getting too ridiculous. I will stay with antlerless stuff from now on.

 

[gwhunter]

So like Z Barebow said, I would be willing to write the people who created this bill, however since they work for the people of Wyoming does what I say mean anything? Can anything be done to give us non-residents a voice? Buzz, I would be interested in your thoughts on this topic as well since I have recently started hunting (and accumulating points) in Wyoming this past year.

 

[1_pointer]

So like Z Barebow said, I would be willing to write the people who created this bill, however since they work for the people of Wyoming does what I say mean anything? Can anything be done to give us non-residents a voice? Buzz, I would be interested in your thoughts on this topic as well since I have recently started hunting (and accumulating points) in Wyoming this past year.

Yes it can matter. In talking with him last night, recently a lobbyiest (however that dirty word is spelled) flew in some NRs to testify against a bill. The bill didn't pass...

 

[jryoung]

Write the committee and tell them this will keep you out of WY. If enough NRs start raising enough of a stink hopefully they'll reconsider their thinking.

 

[Flatrock]

I heard the bill that would decrease the NR moose, sheep and goat from 25% to 10% was voted down due to the loss of revenue that would result from NR's not buying points. Anybody else hear that? Maybe this bill is a way to increase the revenue and then possibly try again to reduce the big 3 down to 10%???

 

[1_pointer]

I heard the bill that would decrease the NR moose, sheep and goat from 25% to 10% was voted down due to the loss of revenue that would result from NR's not buying points. Anybody else hear that? Maybe this bill is a way to increase the revenue and then possibly try again to reduce the big 3 down to 10%???

Yes, the 10% limit on NRs did not pass. I think part of your 'maybe' sentence is correct, ie. an effort to keep revenue the same or higher.

 

[BuzzH]

Heres the deal.

As much as I don't want to say this, you guys are hosed as NR's.

There are those, like flopgun, claiming that SF69 and HB149 are "not related"....well, they are.

Actually, to fully understand this issue we have to back up to last session. Last year, a bill was introduced to reduce the allocation of ALL species in Wyoming to a 90/10 split. That bill panicked WYOGA, and rightfully so. It panicked me as well, as I have no doubt that bill would have crushed the WYGF department. Well it didn't pass, and rightfully so.

In the moment of panick, WYOGA set up a "Wyoming Hunter Defense Fund" to combat the tag allocation on ALL species.

Well, this year word gets around that another bill is in the works to only do the 90/10 allocation for moose, sheep, goat, bison, and hopefully soon, grizzly bears. WYOGA starts a campaign, lying like a bunch of cheap rugs, that the new bill will be for ALL species.

SF69 is introduced to bring WY in line with ALL other states in allocation of MSGB tags, a 90/10 split. WYOGA, for obvious reasons, ramps up the effort, spreading fear into NR sheep hunters. We're talking a combined 78 total tags for all 4 species. Meanwhile WYOGA keeps getting more and more money funneled to them in the "Wyoming" hunter "defense" fund.

WYOGA continues the smear campaign and Trojan horse argument about how bad the loss of 78 tags is going to be to local economies.

The bill is heard yesterday and was defeated. WYOGA paid to fly Kyle Meintzer from Nevada to Cheyenne to testify against the bill. Poor Kyle is 66 years old and only has 15 sheep points, this bill will make him 120 years old before he draws. Chris Brown with the Hotel and Restaurant Lobby, he claims that 78 tags will have "huge economic impact on his businesses' and that "we already HAVE the resident money, we don't have the NR money. (He'll be getting a lesson here soon, as well as the businesses he "represents")

But, what this bill did, was to fund the chit out WYOGA and embolden them. Many NR's wrote the Wyoming Legislature that the "funding" shortfall would be catastrophic.

Pretty lame, IMO for a bunch of NR hunters to fund/support WYOGA, over not drawing a sheep tag, or having to wait a bit longer to draw.

Even more ridiculous when every NR hunter knows the following about WYOGA:

1. They contribute not a single penny to the GF Department.
2. They passed the Wilderness Guide Law, the most restrictive law for NR access on the books.
3. Tiered license fees for NR's, currently 40/60 split Special/regular.
4. Lobbied successfully and passed the Legislation to raise moose points to $75 and sheep to $100.
5. Have lobbied repeatedly to increase fees on NR only.

One would think, that NR's knowing the way WYOGA has asshandled them in the past, they would be smart enough to not support WY financially or through emails over this 90/10 split.

Now, the very group that they supported (wyoga), introduced a bill (hb149), AFTER the 90/10 bill failed. This bill will flip the 40/60 to 60/40.

A bunch of self-serving sheep point holders just layed the pipe to THOUSANDS of NR elk, deer, and pronghorn hunters. Guys like Flopgun tripped all over themselves supporting WYOGA on the 90/10, and are now "opposed" to WYOGA breaking it off in their ass with the 60/40 bill.

This bill is 100% the work of WYOGA, it has nothing to do with Resident Sportsmen. We Residents have asked for fee increases on ourselves the last several sessions and were denied by the Legislature. Denied for purely political reasons, nothing to do with the age old fairy tale that "residents are too cheap to pay more and want to stick it to the NR's."

That's not true at all guys, its just not, we have tried to raise R fees.

Now, guys like flopgun are saying that I wont do anything to help the average guy and try to kill this 60/40 bill.

Frankly, I cant do it alone and I don't have the money to fly NR's to Cheyenne to testify. Sadly, some major league dipshit NR's have chosen to financially support, as well as write letters to help WYOGA to the demise of thousands to make sure they get their sheep tag sooner...

IMO, this is a done deal...sadly.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

A well played strategy by WYOGA no doubt. It goes to show you need to be careful about the allies you choose.

A 90/10 split on the big three is the norm, but many on the Bowsite were talking class action suit, etc because of the "implied promise" that their preference points would get them their tag someday and this would torpedo that.

Three things stand out to me through this:

Never align yourself with an outfitters/guides association as a NR, DIY guy
Preference points suck and create an expectation of a tag
Folks will do anything to preserve the "value" of their PP

 

[NoWiser]

A well played strategy by WYOGA no doubt. It goes to show you need to be careful about the allies you choose.

A 90/10 split on the big three is the norm, but many on the Bowsite were talking class action suit, etc because of the "implied promise" that their preference points would get them their tag someday and this would torpedo that.

Three things stand out to me through this:

Never align yourself with an outfitters/guides association as a NR, DIY guy
Preference points suck and create an expectation of a tag
Folks will do anything to preserve the "value" of their PP

JLS hit the nail on the head. This just stinks...

 

[BuzzH]

It sucks worse for me...taking chit from every angle.

I'd almost rather be a NR and just have to come up with more money to apply in the Special side of the draw...trust me.

JLS, you are 100% correct, and if R and NR hunters don't start finding themselves on the same side, supporting each other, sometimes at their own expense, it wont get better.

I also might add that the various Sporting groups better get on the same page as well, don't see much of that either.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

My money says that any of the unsold special draw tags will eventually end up in the hands of SFW to be auctioned for "conservayshun".

 

[NoWiser]

My uncle came to me to research and line up a guided elk hunt for him and his son as a gift to him for graduation. Neither are capable of a DIY hunt in the mountains. I was going to recommend a hunt in Wyoming, but after this I'll be steering them away from the state. I will absolutely not be recommending a member of WYOGA for their hunt.

 

[Z Barebow]

Buzz- Thanks for your insight. I know you fight hard for all hunters in WYO. Doesn't matter whether they are res or NR. I won't kill the messenger!

Well played WYGOA. Which is more important? 78 NR tags for sheep, mtn goats and sheep? Or the thousands of NR tags for antelope, elk and deer? Grab your ankles and take it dry, this is going to hurt folks.