Wyoming unit 23

magnum44270

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There were 440 resident tags available but only 199 first choice apps so no first choice sellout this year. So the non-residents had an unexpectedly better draw this year since all unsold resident tags rollover into the NR pool. Also not safe to assume that all 112 second choices got filled. Looks similar to 2018. Surprising that more residents don't put in for type 1 tags for area 23. The available public land must have more difficult access than one would guess tho I don't follow the area at all.
Drew 23 this year as a resident, but the past 2 years i did not. Think some residents got tired of not drawing their local unit and started looking elsewhere like 16 and 17....access in 23 is pretty good
 

wllm1313

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Surprising that more residents don't put in for type 1 tags for area 23. The available public land must have more difficult access than one would guess tho I don't follow the area at all.
If I was a resident I would save my first choice for a much better unit, the public has huge access issues compared to other units. I would assume anyone from that area would just get a leftover private land tag.
 

antelopedundee

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If your man in Cheyenne can read simple random draw odds, he'll confirm it! The document clearly lists tags available and number of applicants, if there are more tags than applicants everyone got a tag. It really is that simple.
it doesn't necessarily mean that the 3rd place app drew the tag. He could have gotten his first or second choice.
 

LCH

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it doesn't necessarily mean that the 3rd place app drew the tag. He could have gotten his first or second choice.
No, that is not how it works. If they drew first choice, they wouldn't be entered into the running for 2nd or 3rd choice.



To illustrate my point, take a look at the NR 2019 preference point odds, regular draw. Look at area 32 just as an example. There were 210 first choice applicants and 54 tags issued (one over quota due to a party app).

Now, look at the random draw odds. Are there 210 first choice applicants shown? No, there are 156 first choice applicants entered into this draw. This is because 54 applicants got a tag in the preference point round.
 

antelopedundee

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No, that is not how it works. If they drew first choice, they wouldn't be entered into the running for 2nd or 3rd choice.



To illustrate my point, take a look at the NR 2019 preference point odds, regular draw. Look at area 32 just as an example. There were 210 first choice applicants and 54 tags issued (one over quota due to a party app).

Now, look at the random draw odds. Are there 210 first choice applicants shown? No, there are 156 first choice applicants entered into this draw. This is because 54 applicants got a tag in the preference point round.
For 2018 area 29 type 2 there were 480 resident tags available. The draw report showed that 30 apps had it as 1st choice, 31 apps had it for second and 19 apps had it as 3rd so according to what you say "yep" is that 80 tags were issued. The total issued was 49 so out of 50 2nd and 3rd choice apps only 19 tags were issued. There is no way to tell that from the draw odds posted so you need to ask for that info. Regardless, if you had chosen that choice as a resident you'd still be guaranteed a tag. As it is there are still over 200 available for second chance.
 

LCH

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For 2018 area 29 type 2 there were 480 resident tags available. The draw report showed that 30 apps had it as 1st choice, 31 apps had it for second and 19 apps had it as 3rd so according to what you say "yep" is that 80 tags were issued. The total issued was 49 so out of 50 2nd and 3rd choice apps only 19 tags were issued. There is no way to tell that from the draw odds posted so you need to ask for that info. Regardless, if you had chosen that choice as a resident you'd still be guaranteed a tag. As it is there are still over 200 available for second chance.
Where do you see in the 2018 resident draw odds that only 49 tags were issued for that area?

Look down the column of 2nd and 3rd choice applicants in that document. Notice how there are generally fewer 2nd choice applicants than 1st? And fewer 3rd choice applicants than 2nd? It's because they're not shown as 2nd or 3rd choice applicants, if they have already drawn a tag previously in the cycle.
 

antelopedundee

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If your man in Cheyenne can read simple random draw odds, he'll confirm it! The document clearly lists tags available and number of applicants, if there are more tags than applicants everyone got a tag. It really is that simple.
But the tags weren't necessarily all for that area is what I'm getting at. So if 440 were available it's guaranteed that 199 were issued and up to 112 2nd chance could have been issued and up to 44 3rd chance could have been issued. If only 50 2nd and 3rd choice tags were issued then that's 106 extra tags that go into the NR pool.

So as a NR I have a better chance to draw a type 1 tag in 23 than I do in area 29 which for me is almost no chance.
 
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magnum44270

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If I was a resident I would save my first choice for a much better unit, the public has huge access issues compared to other units. I would assume anyone from that area would just get a leftover private land tag.
??? ....plenty of public in 23, hunt it every year for deer and goats....Us locals cant and wont pay trespass fees to get private land tags
 

antelopedundee

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??? ....plenty of public in 23, hunt it every year for deer and goats....Us locals cant and wont pay trespass fees to get private land tags

What's the going rate [if you can get access] for trespass fees in that area?

FWIW there are likely some real nice goats in almost every area. A friend who makes bullets had a customer tell him that he went on his first hunt last year south of Lusk and 5 minutes after getting out of his vehicle he took the #5 all time Wyoming goat.
 

wllm1313

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??? ....plenty of public in 23, hunt it every year for deer and goats....Us locals cant and wont pay trespass fees to get private land tags
Please correct me if I’m wrong but for residents Wyoming is a straight lottery? Therefore it kinda behooves you to apply in ‘good’ units for your first choice , then ‘public access is hard’ units for your second choice?

My point was also that a lot of the residents of unit 23 probably own land so can hunt their property... I didn’t realize that Gillette was partially in the unit.... obviously if you own a home in Gillette you probably don’t have the ability to hunt your property.

Also why ‘cant’ locals pay trespass fees?
 

WyoDoug

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Please correct me if I’m wrong but for residents Wyoming is a straight lottery? Therefore it kinda behooves you to apply in ‘good’ units for your first choice , then ‘public access is hard’ units for your second choice?

My point was also that a lot of the residents of unit 23 probably own land so can hunt their property... I didn’t realize that Gillette was partially in the unit.... obviously if you own a home in Gillette you probably don’t have the ability to hunt your property.

Also why ‘cant’ locals pay trespass fees?
Wyoming is straight lottery. I have done good drawing everything I put in for for the last 3 years. My strategy is always put in #1 for where you really want to hunt, then second and third options as places you are likely to draw a tag from. I have never played the odds game described in this forum.

I do not believe in paying to hunt public land and I refuse. As for hunting private property, instead, I try to make friends with the landowner and exchange labor for right to hunt. That may mean fence mending, patrolling his property for him, making sure gates are closed, watering and feeding livestock, other things in lieu of a trespass fee.
 

antelopedundee

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Wyoming is straight lottery. I have done good drawing everything I put in for for the last 3 years. My strategy is always put in #1 for where you really want to hunt, then second and third options as places you are likely to draw a tag from. I have never played the odds game described in this forum.

I do not believe in paying to hunt public land and I refuse. As for hunting private property, instead, I try to make friends with the landowner and exchange labor for right to hunt. That may mean fence mending, patrolling his property for him, making sure gates are closed, watering and feeding livestock, other things in lieu of a trespass fee.

Area 23 had 440 resident type 1 tags available yet less than half of that number list it as their first choice. Why would that be? Seems to me that if the public access was that good that those 440 would sell out. Then again the population is limited and a lot of area residents maybe prefer to hunt elsewhere.
 

WyoDoug

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Area 23 had 440 resident type 1 tags available yet less than half of that number list it as their first choice. Why would that be? Seems to me that if the public access was that good that those 440 would sell out. Then again the population is limited and a lot of area residents maybe prefer to hunt elsewhere.
As a resident, I know where the populations for antelope are and I hunt those areas. I hunt antelope primarily to fill the freezer full of meat so I pick the areas with the highest populations. As for area 23, the reason for people not picking it much is access issues. The BLM land in that area is checkerboarded bad and landowners do not allow use of private roads to access the BLM land and many will claim ownership to BLM land. If you hunt 23, you better know your maps and have a good GPS. Area 23 has good antelope population but access is bad. There is some National Forest land in the northwest section of that area but I don't think you'll see a lot of antelope there.
 

WyoDoug

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If you hunt area 23, success rate is around 94%. Definitely get the current county road map. Ranchers in that area frequently will post both sides of the county road where it enters their ranch and that can appear to mean no entry beyond that point. It doesn't, it applies to the deeded land only, you can still drive the public road AND access public land fronting the road. I hunt north of Gillette on deeded land I have permission to hunt on for elk and deer. My hunting buddy used an antelope decoy during archery and approached a goat within 10 yards before he shot it. First time I ever seen anyone get that close. He shot it in the bed.
 

antelopedundee

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Where do you see in the 2018 resident draw odds that only 49 tags were issued for that area?

Look down the column of 2nd and 3rd choice applicants in that document. Notice how there are generally fewer 2nd choice applicants than 1st? And fewer 3rd choice applicants than 2nd? It's because they're not shown as 2nd or 3rd choice applicants, if they have already drawn a tag previously in the cycle.
I didn't, I was given that info by my contact from WGFD. So for 2018 you can infer that at most 80 residents will draw a type 2 tag and 400 will rollover to NR. At the least 30 residents will draw and 450 will rollover. So the real amount issued was somewhere in between. Also if you apply 1st choice in y and 3rd choice in x and draw your 1st choice then you are automatically removed from the draw BUT you still stay on the overall APP list. The last time I applied in the initial draw I put 29-2 for all 3 choices.

If there were 80 apps and only 49 issues then this can't possibly be the actual issue list.


I tdon't agree with your comment about 2nd and 3rd choice apps having lower numbers due to first choices being drawn. It's more likely that simply fewer folks apply.


https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Drawing Odds/DRAW_ANT_RES_2018.pdf
 
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