WY one shot pronghorn hunt...circling the drain

[JM77]

Three people spoke last week against the One shot tags at the Commission meeting, more specifically the 56 "give-away" that aren't used in their competition. We need ten people to show up or Zoom in next year. This isn't over, but without a strong showing, we aren't making headway on reducing these tags which the Commission has the authority to do.

And while I'm at it here, why do we always look for the things we disagree on, when I'm certain 99.9% percent on here agree these tags are a rip-off to all sportsman? Forget the other stuff, different time and thread for that.

 

[Dinkshooter]

At the very least they should cut the tags accordingly this year to the percentage cut overall from the preceding bad winter and summer drought. I think this is in the same area as some pretty big tag cuts overall?

 

[BuzzH]

At the very least they should cut the tags accordingly this year to the percentage cut overall from the preceding bad winter and summer drought. I think this is in the same area as some pretty big tag cuts overall?

Doe permits, but not buck tags thanks to some "experimenting" that the GF is doing. I don't agree with this "experiment" but the GF is...I think its a bad move, but will reserve judgement. Its year 2 into the 3 year trial and I'm going to have to see some pretty damn convincing evidence that its a good idea.

 

[WapitiBob]

At the very least they should cut the tags accordingly this year to the percentage cut overall from the preceding bad winter and summer drought. I think this is in the same area as some pretty big tag cuts overall?

per the Commission Notebook

*The proposed allocation of licenses is proportional to the estimated number of licenses available in these hunt areas during the 2021 season. This process has been used for decades and Lander Region personnel support the proposed allocation.

**The Proposed allocation of licenses is based on the Wyoming Women’s Antelope Hunt request. All hunt areas in the Wyoming Women’s Antelope Hunt request had 100% drawing success for resident applicants in 2020. Sheridan Region personnel support the proposed
allocation.

 

[BuzzH]

per the Commission Notebook

*The proposed allocation of licenses is proportional to the estimated number of licenses available in these hunt areas during the 2021 season. This process has been used for decades and Lander Region personnel support the proposed allocation.

**The Proposed allocation of licenses is based on the Wyoming Women’s Antelope Hunt request. All hunt areas in the Wyoming Women’s Antelope Hunt request had 100% drawing success for resident applicants in 2020. Sheridan Region personnel support the proposed
allocation.

What hasn't been part of the discussion and hasn't been used for decades, are the changes to statute in the license allocations for both hunts. The commission is required to cut the one shot hunt if there are reductions in quota's.

What we ran into here is that there is 3 new commission members that need to be aware of the new statute and that they do, in fact, have the ability to not issue the tags.

IMO, Dube didn't clarify that at all during the commission meeting.

 

[MO Betta]

From an email I received, looks like the quota for buck tags was reduced 10% this year. Those 160 guaranteed tags sure look shiny.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Who is "we"?

Mountain Pursuit...since there's two "i's" it's plural

 

[Wildabeest]

Mountain Pursuit...since there's two "i's" it's plural

He’s speaking on behalf of all of his personalities.

 

[RobertD]

Someone spell it out for me please. One Shot gets their tags, but reduced in proportion to reductions in the unit in which the hunt is held?

It's an absolute slap in the face that this thing is back on at all after the antelope got hammered in the snowstorm like they did.

 

[MO Betta]

@RobertD One Shot and the Wyoming women’s hunt won’t be getting a reduction in tags, only the pool for for the rest of joe public will.

 

[RobertD]

@RobertD One Shot and the Wyoming women’s hunt won’t be getting a reduction in tags, only the pool for for the rest of joe public will.

Thanks JeffJ.

If you or anyone else can tell me who I should email about this, I will go ahead and do it tomorrow a.m. I have some thoughts I would like to share, in a respectful way of course.

 

[MO Betta]

I believe Buzz or someone else posted the contact information for the WY G&F commissioners somewhere in this thread, but you should also be able to find it at wgfd.wyo.gov

 

[WapitiBob]

Someone spell it out for me please. One Shot gets their tags, but reduced in proportion to reductions in the unit in which the hunt is held?

It's an absolute slap in the face that this thing is back on at all after the antelope got hammered in the snowstorm like they did.

You might look at the hunt areas and 2021 tag allocations before you get all twisted up.

The women's hunt on the other hand may not be 100% for residents in 2021.

 

[RobertD]

I believe Buzz or someone else posted the contact information for the WY G&F commissioners somewhere in this thread, but you should also be able to find it at wgfd.wyo.gov

Thanks. I'm sure I'll be able to find the right info, was more looking for whom to write to. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[RobertD]

You might look at the hunt areas and 2021 tag allocations before you get all twisted up.

The women's hunt on the other hand may not be 100% for residents in 2021.

Fair point, I have a copy of the allocations and have already checked them out. I don't know that either hunt is in a unit that actually saw buck tag reductions. But I think that the optics of hosting this hunt in a year like this merit an email anyway.

You've got the GF openly acknowledging the antelope are in a rough spot this year, but the good ole boys are still going to get to play dress up and wail on a bunch of antelope. If I'm one more voice pushing against the thing then that's good enough for me.

 

[1_pointer]

I'm against all these Wyoming tag donations to nonprofits - Commissioner Tags, Governor Tags, Lander One-Shot, etc. I believe all money generated from all license sales should go to the G&F Department general fund.

What's happened in Wyoming is the development of a tag give-away industry where some of these nonprofits actually auction Commissioner tags on eBay, or similar hunting tag auction sites, the nonprofit employees take a significant cut (the $130K + salaries of the Muley Fanatic Foundation Founders is the worse example), and the tracking/accountability of how the money is spent is sloppy, at best (One-shot).

Also - the money that does to wildlife work isn't prioritized by the most pressing needs in the state but rather goes to scattered projects often determined by species, not need. If this money was centralized at the G&F department, the department could prioritize to address most pressing needs.

I'm not against auction/raffle for some tags - but it should be done by the G&F Department - like the Super Tag - where the money is all raised, tracked and spent, in-house.

The statutes somewhat contradict themselves on how money generated from license sales can be spent. I'm researching for possible legal action.

Quite a bit I agree with in this post. Not a fan of groups getting tags to raffle/auction.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Quite a bit I agree with in this post. Not a fan of groups getting tags to raffle/auction.

Like the rest of Rob’s platform it’s heavy handed and painted with a broad brush. There are a ton of different raffles and auctions across the west, some are great I’m sure some don’t return a ton of value to hunters. The best thing to do would be to look at each individually, rather than undermining the great organizations out there.

Regardless, one shot is fatally flawed. The number of tags + the units they’re in is ridiculous in the light of draw odds. The entire thing is horrifically chauvinistic. The event screws over hunters and shoots holes in the

Personally I don’t care which reason someone picks for coming out against it.

I appreciate that Rob spoke against it, on this issue we are aligned.

 

[1_pointer]

Like the rest of Rob’s platform it’s heavy handed and painted with a broad brush. There are a ton of different raffles and auctions across the west, some are great I’m sure some don’t return a ton of value to hunters. The best thing to do would be to look at each individually, rather than undermining the great organizations out there.

Regardless, one shot is fatally flawed. The number of tags + the units they’re in is ridiculous in the light of draw odds. The entire thing is horrifically chauvinistic. The event screws over hunters and shoots holes in the

Personally I don’t care which reason someone picks for coming out against it.

I appreciate that Rob spoke against it, on this issue we are aligned.

I disagree with a group, any group, getting tags to raffle/auction. Regardless of the organization, the species they represent or how "good" of work they do. That money would be better going straight to the state's G&F department IMO and 100% of it.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I disagree with a group, any group, getting tags to raffle/auction. Regardless of the organization, the species they represent or how "good" of work they do. That money would be better going straight to the state's G&F department IMO and 100% of it.

I wish that every time I bought or sold a property it was a private transaction on both ends in cash so that I got 100% of the profit.

States often don't even run their own draws and so they aren't even getting 100% of the money from the general elk tags they sell. One company Aspira runs license sales/draws for 25% of the departments in the country. I'm not sure if they charge a flat fee for a percentage of each transaction. Either way the state is likely paying a decent amount for their services.

Personally I'm ok with fish and game departments using Aspira instead of running huge teams of inhouse developers. The system runs better and I bet they actually come out ahead in terms of money.

Similarly, State Fish and Game departments aren't necessarily the best at getting running raffles and auctions. Rich people love a good soirée, I imagine that is part of how some groups get the insane prices on those tags.

It would be interesting to look at the revenue generated by a super tag and then compare it to a raffle tag at one of the various orgs and look at what the agency actually nets. For me personally the net is what's important in this context. If they are getting $50,000 for a super tag while [conservation group] is selling a tag for $500,000 and returning the agency only $375,000 I'm still in favor of that group getting to raffle a tag.

If the super tag is generating more money, then I would agree, that org should not get to raffle the tag.

Before I advocate anything regarding raffles, I would want to fully understand the numbers and dynamics for each situation.

My bottom-line is if your auctioning a tag you should try to maximize the return and that money should go to conservation. Yes, some auction tags probably aren't cutting the mustard, but you need to look at each individual.

Each state has different mechanics. Here is CO.
"Statute C.R.S 33-4-116 and CPW Regulation #229 allow organizations to retain up to 25% of the gross proceeds of the auctions and raffles to cover costs and to fund projects of their choosing that benefit wildlife in Colorado. At least 75% of gross proceeds must be paid to CPW. Funds generated from the sale of these licenses are used for big game habitat enhancement, research, management, and education in Colorado."

It would be great if an organization did a exhaustive analysis and presented a public report on each tag, and auctions versus raffles.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The Commissioner tags are 100% for the sponsored organization and there isn't a kick back to the WGFD, IIRC.

Here's the list of awardees going back to 2008:

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Commissioner License Authorizations

wgfd.wyo.gov

I've benefited from commissioners tags in that they helped fund former employers, but they've also been used as big fundraisers for groups not associated with wildlife conservation. The number of tags & the scope of groups is rather breathtaking.

Personally, it's not much different than the UT tag theft. If you don't support the Expo tags, then you'd have a tough time finding the intellectual consistency to support these.


As for one-shot, there are a lot of old traditions that have been shown the door because they're no longer worthy of the tradition. One shot fits that.