Would you still hunt with....

[Wyodeerhunter]

Just depends on how big the buck is.

If it is big....................then yes you are a poacher

True story there!

I won't call you a poacher. I don't call anyone a poacher unless I know for sure. But you already know what will come of posting pictures hahahahaha.

I'd rather not put myself in that situation.

Can he still go along with people on hunts? Sometimes they cannot even go hunting with others as part of their sentance.

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie, I wonder if he's even allowed to accompany someone when hunting yet...I'd check before I went with him.

Sometimes, depending on the case, convicted poachers arent even allowed to accompany other hunters...

Not meaning any disrespect, but that is one guy I'd not ever hunt with. What he did was a little bit beyond just a minor violation.

Looks like Wyodeerhunter beat me to the question.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

hahahahaha I'm not sure why I type like that. Seems like after I put a .

I have to start a new line

-ern.
esto

 

[Moosie]

You guys know I'm fairly honest and say what I want type of guy. I also know that several of you Disreguard people after they do something and get busted for it. I respect people for their thoughts, feelings, etc. so you can tell me I'm wrong. As long as It's legal, I'll continue down the path though.

Personally, I know what I've done in the past with hunting "infractions" or bending the law a little, however Small it might be. Although at times it was no big deal, looking back on things I'm like WTF was I thinking.... I wouldn't even think of doing stuff again. Had I got caught years ago I could have said it changed me.. and People, rightfully so, would have said I said sorry because I got caught. RIGHT ? But truthfully I was and am sorry for it. Guys get caught up in the moment. Sometimes once, sometimes a couple times.... Some guys never stop. Caught or not caught. I might be a misjudge in character but I don't think so.

I've spent years dedicating time to put back into wildlife. Donating money to different organizations, Spending time Fawn and Doe collaring, Bitterbrush and Sage planting, working with F&G on anti Poaching projects, and the list goes on. Did I need too ? Legally no, but I feel I owe it to myself, the animals and every hunter. Right or wrong, I've moved on and grew up. I think sometimes it takes being caught to do that, other times it doesn't.

I for one have alway liked Jeff. Maybe when I spend a weekend or Week with him I'll come back and tell you I was wrong and He's a Prick. I'm man enough to say that if I am wrong. But I truthfully think he's still a Good guy and whether got caught up in the moment in life or whatever, did what he did, and now it's water under the bridge to me.

Everybody that I know thats met him thinks he's a top knotch guy. Everyone, including me, thinks he did the crime, and should pay the time. He did, he is, and thats it. I've gotten speeding tickets before and Rightfully so, I was Speeding, and I moved on.

If I got a speeding ticket, or two, would you NEVER drive with me again ? MAybe so, but I'd get in a Car with a guy that had a Speeding ticket, or Even a Mistimener (SP?) by flipping a U turn on the freeway (YAh, I did that once too and got busted .. ). My point is I'm still a Good guy, I think.

Anyway, I still respect your thoughts and totally understand when some comments come out if I get lucky. But remember, if you don't respect mine...you can always KMA too

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie,

Like I said, depends on the law broken to me.

What Jeff did was way beyond what I find acceptable, and in my experience, guys like him are typically repeat offenders. Its highly unlikely it was the first time he did the same thing...just the first time he got caught.

The guy was hunting in a completely wrong unit without a tag...no different than capping a deer on winter range in December.

There was also a wanton waste issue as well.

I can excuse mistakes, I dont excuse calculated, premeditated poaching of the publics wildlife.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one...I think Jeff is a worthless bastard and I wont change my mind or sugar-coat it. I find the poaching of trophy class game about as low budget as mugging old ladies.

Yes, I'd say it the same thing if he was standing right in front of me.

 

[Moosie]

Buzz, I know you would, he knows you would. and purrdy much everyone knows you would. Thats what I like about ya I also know there are several others that think that way. Or worse.... "Worthless Bastard" ? I expected you coming out with harshers words, you must be feeling nice tonight

Can we disagree and Still hunt in the future together ? Or in your eyes, would I be just as bad because I associate myself with someone you feel is worthless ? You know your answer won't change what I'm going to do, with no disrespect, but I'm just curious.

I know a few guys that we both know that have "Premeditated" in their hunting career. Either you don't know about it or aer selective on the Under the buss throwing. I'm not here to air others out. My thinking is there are very few Truely Honest, no Mistake/On Purpose hunters out there. I would hope that the Majority of hunters are out there in general with the right intentions.

Hopefully me bringing this up doesn't make it look like I condone any sort of wrong doing. I've always been, and every year more so, a believer in doing the right thing. If someone does a Crime they should do the time.

I agree we disagree although I see where you're coming from.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Moosie,
I don't think you can compare in a fair way, poaching a buck for its antlers, to making a u turn on the highway. A fair comparision would be speeding tickets are like a ticket for having a loaded gun in transport (road hunting). Or maybe not having one of the various conservation stamps. But to compare speeding to someone who poached out of EGO and MONEY is not fair IMHO. And I do believe that is two of the reasons he poached. He was at the "level" where it was expected of him to kill big deer every year. Guys in utah were jacking off to pictures of him with big bucks. It also didn't hurt his business if he was killing big bucks (MONEY) for advertisment reasons. One of the things that struck me as Jeff being a bad person was he also admitted to turning back in his bear tag. I guess it was a hard tag to draw, and took years to get. When he finally drawn the tag and went to "HIS" bear spot there were hunters there already. So he went to the CDOW and lied to them to turn his tag back in and get his points back. Not much to say there but WTF.

I will agree with you on the difference between someone online and offline. Some of the "nicest" guys on the internet have the most skeletons in the closet. Like you moosie I've done some dumb shit in the past. I've shot from the road which I am sure was probably a violation. When I look back at the "dumb" stuff I did a lot of it wasn't even about rules or laws. There were many times I took shots I shouldn't of took, or walked through a canyon where other hunters were. Which ruined their morning hunt. I was confronted by a guy one time and said I ruined his hunt with his son because my buddy and I hiked through the bowl they were glassing. We had saw the hunters but didn't want to walk around the bowl when we could just go through it. One time I did something really stupid and stuck a dr pepper can in an animals mouth my buddy had shot. Thats probably the most disrespectful thing I did and I think about it from time to time. WTF was I thinking. Young and dumb. Probably still dumb but just a little older.

I don't know you moosie so I have to base what you do from what I read on the interent. Knowing that you will have the tag and be there would leave no doubt in my mind that when I see you with your buck it will be taken in a legal matter. Good luck on your hunt.

btw not to change the subject but I've yet to see someone with an impressive buck that they have took using his services. Just food for thought.

Ernesto

 

[Moosie]

btw not to change the subject but I've yet to see someone with an impressive buck that they have took using his services. Just food for thought.

Ernesto

I actually have...... But don't mix up me hunting with him as me giving him any type of money. Although he sells hunt info still I think. I wanted to hunt with somene that could outhike me, or so he might think. We'd be hunting as Friends.

Whether I come back with a 20"-22" Typical Moosie buck, or smaller... or luckily a bigger one, you can bet it will be done legally, with alot of fun, and many pictures.

I have a wife that is MAd today becasue i put in for Idaho BEar hunt. It was $6.50 as I already have a tag I made a deal with her ears ago that I would hunt out of state once a year. Next week, I'll be in AZ hunting Javalina, then the following week in NM hunting Gemsbock. I'm sure I'll draw Wyoming Elk... So.. I'm wondering in Colorado Deer might be pushing it,,,,, And thoughts on that (Not to change the Subject, but a Valid question non-the-less ????)

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

I have a wife that is MAd today becasue i put in for Idaho BEar hunt. It was $6.50 as I already have a tag I made a deal with her ears ago that I would hunt out of state once a year. Next week, I'll be in AZ hunting Javalina, then the following week in NM hunting Gemsbock. I'm sure I'll draw Wyoming Elk... So.. I'm wondering in Colorado Deer might be pushing it,,,,, And thoughts on that (Not to change the Subject, but a Valid question non-the-less ????)

G L there hahahahaha. I'm just jealous of all your hunts you'll be doing this fall! And all the previous years lol....

Can't wait to see pics from your oryx hunt. G L

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie,

I couldnt care less if you choose to hunt with Jeff, and it doesnt make you a bad person. Certainly doesnt mean I wouldnt help you out or share a hunt again.

I just think that the fact he was doing it for ego, for money, and knew he was going to do what he did wayyyyy in advance...thats what bothers me. It also bothers me that he probably got away with it for YEARS before he caught.

Look, I think anyone that hunts, in particular when they start very young, has likely pulled some things they're not proud of and later regret. While not an excuse for past behavior, I believe that as hunters mature, HOW they get their animals is more important to them than anything else. It is for me. I couldnt feel good about knowingly taking an animal in the wrong hunting unit and leaving the meat to rot.

But, there is also a segment of hunters who never mature as hunters past about the 12 year old mentality...kill it no matter what. Kill what you want, when you want, and how you want. Dont worry about the regs and laws, just kill it, thats all that matters.

The sad part is, things like he did are almost accepted and excused by many people. I remember reading the post on MM. There was a guy that said something to the effect that, "We're all to blame for his behavior, we put pressure on him to produce trophy animals year after year". That is still one of the dumbest and most ignorant things I've ever read on a hunting board.

Yeah, I FORCED the guy to poach.

The pressure he put on himself to produce trophy game was put there by his own greed and ego...pure and simple.

Personally, I dont put any pressure on myself when I hunt, other than to hunt as hard as I can, as often as I can, legally. I dont think I've failed if I do that...and I dont need a dead animal at the end of a hunt where I've given it my best shot to prove my success.

What others think if I dont get an animal...they have no idea how much I could give a shit less.

 

[noharleyyet]

they have no idea how much I could give a shit less.

Pretty much my thoughts Buzz...& definitely sig worthy.

 

[mtmiller]

Where do you draw your line Oscar?

 

[Moosie]

Where do you draw your line Oscar?

You'll need you to be more specific. Are you talknig about me personally ?

I'll type alot so people can Cut and Quote specific things if they want to keep going....

MY LINES... If it's in the rulebook thats where I draw the line. Sometimes I'm to far on the inside any more. I don't want to lose my chances to do what I like. When it comes to Bad jokes, I'm on the Other side of the line and should usually stop before I get there.

When it comes to Duck hunting.. Usually several minuites after the legal shooting light just to make sure, stuff like that. I think that DAY LIGHT issue on Waterfowl is the Biggest Crock. In the morning I can still pull the trigger legally before I can Identify the bird. In the morning I have to stop shooting well before dark. But I obey them and move on.

Ridgelines as boundrys ? My line will probably be 3/4's of the way up the boundry because I want a 1/4 way buffer to make sure there is no issue. If there is a Defining fence, My line would be sitting on the fence and waiting for the buck I'm watching to come jump it.

Would I hop Private property to shorten my trip ? You betcha. if I got caught would I pay, yep...

What lines are you talking about ? Boundary lines ? Following rules lines ? Who would I be willing to go hunt with if they did an infraction, lines ?

Who would I turn in, and for what ? That might be a good one. But a whole 'nother topic

When it comes to others, my lines "wave". I figure each person has their own lines. When it comes to Gay sex, I think men are wrong, and women are hot... Some women...

It is Illegal to Drink before you're 21. Personally I think it's a Dumb law. I think the age should be much lower. then again, it'sa Law and if someone does it, and they get busted, they shouldn't complain and they pay the penalty.

When it comes to Speeding... Personally I think it's a Dumb law. I think the roads should dictate what is a safe speed to drive. Then again, it's a Law and if someone does it, and they get busted, they shouldn't complain and they pay the penalty.

Hunting Age ? I dont' agree. I think some people are ready at 6 and others at 25 still need to wait. Would I do it, NOPE. If someone let their kid shoot an animal from them would I turn them in ? NOPE. thats my line.

Stop signs at midnight when no one is comeing should be yeild signs to me. Having to come to a full complete stop, look both ways, then proceed is Dumb. I think if the lanes are clear, I should be able to proceed. Then again, it's a Law and if someone does it, and they get busted, they shouldn't complain and they pay the penalty.

Prostitution.. I think people should have the Choice. Although I can't see paying for it even if I wass Single people should be able to. I think it's a Dumb law. Then again, it's a Law and if someone does it, and they get busted, they shouldn't complain and they pay the penalty.

Having to wear Seatbelts. Dumb law. People should have the Free agency to decide if they want to or not. I do think Underage kids need to be buckled up. At what age ? Ahh that a tough one. Maybe till they can legally drive ? Then they should be able to choose on their own. Then again, it's a Law and if someone does it, and they get busted, they shouldn't complain and they pay the penalty.

I can go on and on with laws that I think are dumb, Line I would and Wouldn't cross in each situation, or whatever specific question you have.

If you are asking me if I have one bit of issue hunting with a guy that has poached, no, not one bit. I know people that Smoke pot too. I can Honestly say I've never done ANY type of drugs (Barring over the counter stuff and then rarely that). But will I do something with a Guy that Toak's one up, sure, as long as we get along otherwise.

I would not hunt with a guy that was Unsafe before I wouldn't hunt with a guy that did something illegal. Thats my BIG line.

Can I answer any other "specific" questions for ya ?

 

[Nut]

For those of you opposed to Oscar's plan I have 2 questions.

Will you hold this against him? Would you hunt with him afterwards?


My answers
are no and yes in that order.

 

[mtmiller]

Where do you draw your line Oscar?

You'll need you to be more specific. Are you talknig about me personally ?

I thought that was pretty clear?

SPECIFICALLY -- You started a poll, what did you draw your line?

• Yes, It doesn't matter if he/she has taken game out of season or multiple animals.
• Only if they haven't been convicted.
• As long as it wasn't serious.
• I am not answering your dumb question
• No, not even if it was because he punched the wrong date on his tag.

 

[mtmiller]

Will you hold this against him? Would you hunt with him afterwards?

I could give two squirts, I think all this thread did was drag a guy through the mud again. Deserving? Maybe, but not the best way to bring the topic forward in my opinion. Subject matter was fine, but inappropriate to bring names into the thread.

Would this keep me from hunting with Oscar again? No.

 

[1_pointer]

IMO, what the thread is really about is our value systems, more specifically how we value certain animal species. The guy in question got into trouble for illegally shooting big mule deer bucks. Now if he'd have gotten busted for shooting a prairie dog in UT out of season I imagine many of the votes/views would be different.

 

[Moosie]

MtMiller, you're right, maybe there would be a different way. This topic was to see what people would say. I find it interesting how people look at things. What do you think my post in the Fall would look like if it got out that I hunted with him though ? You could say I might not should put myself in that situation but you know my thoughts as they are posted above.

I do believe, and if someone can Prove otherwise please let me know, but some the accusations that were listed above are also false. There was no wanton waste of meat. It was all salvaged and he was never charged with that.

My line and my vote would be :

I'm not answering your dumb Questions.

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie,

Yeah, it was salvaged all right...but only after he'd already been busted for the other issues, IIRC.

If it meant leaving the deer and not getting busted or salvaging the deer and getting busted...what do you think would have happened?

No need to answer that...I know the answer.

Just because you're not charged with something in these types of cases...doesnt mean it didnt happen, or wouldnt have happened.

I'm pretty certain the only thing that was important was the antlers and maybe the cape.

Pointer its more than just how we value animals...at least to me. I think its more about how I/we conduct ourselves when afield. For the most part, the only person who will know what happened for sure, will be you. Your odds of being caught are slim...so really its up to each person to decide how they want to conduct themselves.

 

[elk_hunter]

Would I hop Private property to shorten my trip ? You betcha. if I got caught would I pay, yep...

Hey Moosie, not intending to bust your balls here, but I'm curious why you completely disregard private property rights -- that's exactly what you're doing by saying you'd shorten your trip through private. Where's the respect, like it or not?