Windmills coming to public land near you

[hank4elk]

The field propossed near me is near the main lines in good wind spot. There is a public road in area already.
Seems logical,tho unsightly still. "Can't see it from my place" would be an apt phrase. Not near as bad as "url" fumes in water & air.

None of this would be needed if the restraints on individual household power was taken off & the shackles of so called Public Utilities taken off.
It has been doable for years, but we have been restrained by greed. Take the extra power to cities that need it & PAY for IT like originally was the plan. Utilities got out of that clause quick.

 

[WyoDoug]

I would like to see less costly wind turbines and renewable energy options that don't rely on hundreds of gallons of hydraulic oil. Not what I call green. I would rather see more conventional windmills that can be built on vacant lots in the city. The problem is the big shots in this game do not make money on the less costly, less resource hungry options. Money and political connections do the talking right now and not science. Even solar panels have to be replaced periodically and incredibly expensive right now for the average homeowner. Until renewable energy becomes far more economically efficient, it will never replace carbon fuels like coal and petroleum based products.

 

[1976]

By no means I am not trying to stick up for the oil companies, I have had my issues with them on more than one occasion, and just like the proposed drilling sights on public land that are adamantly opposed, the so called environmentalists seem to think that building roads and putting up well subsidized wind towers on public land are deserving and are the ultimate answer to renewable energy. What I see is an old school oil field without the pump jacks, a tower every 20, 40 and sometimes if were lucky 80 acres, and they stretch for miles, they kill more birds, many which are the raptors, than the greenies ever want to admit, and they get away with it, no fine no restrictions. Ah hell I flat out hate wind towers, my opinion, coal, hydro, and nuclear, good cheap power.

 

[Hunting Wife]

It isn’t just that turbines kill things outright.

http://ppjv.org/assets/docs/resources/loesch_wind.pdf

Up to 56% decline in waterfowl nesting pairs within wind areas? I believe the waterfowl avoidance distance for wind is larger than for well pads. That doesn’t take into account all the roads and the massive transmission lines that go with.

The locals in ND managed to get the commission to deny a permit for a wind farm in Burke county in some of the highest quality waterfowl habitat we have left, the Missouri Couteau. It’s being resubmitted of course...only a matter of time until it goes through.

https://bismarcktribune.com/news/st...cle_b66e89b8-6505-59cf-86cb-077a15f0a9ad.html

I was out there working in the proposed project area today....here’s what it looks like:


Yep, smack in the middle of conservation easements, paid for with your Duck Stamp dollars. There has got to be a better way to plan and site these things. If they’re this bad about their site selection on what’s mostly private land, I can’t imagine what it would be like on public.

 

[Fj605]

NW Iowa just became (a couple years now) a huge wind farm and received a brand new power transmission line. The power generated doesn't stay in NW Iowa or anywhere in Iowa. That is where I really take issue with wind and solar. I'd prefer the power generated to stay local. If I had to deal with the constant humming, degradated view of the horizon, and light pollution, then I'd want my electricity to be locally grown. This is reason enough that I debate moving back to family farm.

Full disclosure, my professional career has been solely in the oil and gas industry. I've worked for companies that held federal and state leases. I've had to look at aerial photos to determine where to build locations. I've cussed about sage grouse more than I'd like to admit. Oil and gas doesn't stay local once it hits the pipeline. Would I want to stare at a tank battery in my backyard? Ideally, no.

The majority of the work gets done on private land and that's where I'd prefer to see energy development rather than on public land.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Here is the text of the bill.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II06/20190725/109851/BILLS-116HR3794ih.pdf

 

[brockel]

There is an area in eastern ND with a ton of wind towers, I hate them. Mostly for the fact that it changes the look of the landscape and they really aren’t that efficient when it isn’t windy. I used to bowhunt on a small chunk of land and the neighboring land had a few, when it was calm and quiet all I could hear was the dang windmills and it annoyed me so much I pretty much quit hunting it.

If you are talking about the ones between Marmath and Rhame I drive by those 5 days a week. If the wind is blowing to hard they don’t run. The wind blows all the time in North Dakota so those things are shut down quite often

 

[magnum44270]

Admittedly I haven't read the full text of the bill, but yes I agree installing large scale solar, wind, or geothermal production facilities are just as damaging to wildlife habitat as any extractive energy production.

more of one. At least oil and methane produce water. all windmills do is chop up birds.

 

[Ben Lamb]

more of one. At least oil and methane produce water. all windmills do is chop up birds.

Very true, and those produced waters have led to massive degradation of private land as well as allowed the increase in west Nile virus which is hammering native grouse populations and created death traps for waterfowl.

 

[kmott]

If its going to happen I would really like to see 80% of all profits to go to the Pittman Robertson fund.

it's going to happen but there are no profits without federal subsidies.

 

[Nameless Range]

It isn’t just that turbines kill things outright.

http://ppjv.org/assets/docs/resources/loesch_wind.pdf

Up to 56% decline in waterfowl nesting pairs within wind areas? I believe the waterfowl avoidance distance for wind is larger than for well pads. That doesn’t take into account all the roads and the massive transmission lines that go with.

The locals in ND managed to get the commission to deny a permit for a wind farm in Burke county in some of the highest quality waterfowl habitat we have left, the Missouri Couteau. It’s being resubmitted of course...only a matter of time until it goes .....

Yep, smack in the middle of conservation easements, paid for with your Duck Stamp dollars. There has got to be a better way to plan and site these things. If they’re this bad about their site selection on what’s mostly private land, I can’t imagine what it would be like on public.

Those are some shocking stats.

I drove from western Montana to Mandan, ND today. To each their own, but to me, the piles of windmills here and there are just as abrasive visually as any other energy development I’ve seen.

This thread provided a good hour of conversation between the kids and us.

 

[MTGomer]

Somebody that knows the numbers could figure this out... how many acres of disturbance from windmills and how many windmills would it take and what’s the cost, assuming the windmills will last for the average life of a windmill before needing rebuilt, to generate the amount of electricity that could be produced from natural gas produced as an oil byproduct from one multi well pad with a several acre footprint, over the average lifespan of a Bakken well.

@wllm1313 you know any of these numbers maybe?

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Somebody that knows the numbers could figure this out... how many acres of disturbance from windmills and how many windmills would it take and what’s the cost, assuming the windmills will last for the average life of a windmill before needing rebuilt, to generate the amount of electricity that could be produced from natural gas produced as an oil byproduct from one multi well pad with a several acre footprint, over the average lifespan of a Bakken well.

@wllm1313 you know any of these numbers maybe?

I can probably give you a rough estimate.

Also check out Crusoe Energy, a buddy from college started the company. They are using gas in the Bakken, that would otherwise be flared to power bit coin servers. Pretty cool idea, to utilize reduce an energy footprint and capture an otherwise wasted resource.

 

[Aperventure]

I'm clearly not an expert, but why does these wind turbines always seem to be placed in nice natural areas away from civilization. Why can't be build wind turbines on top of skyscrapers? Or replace every cell phone/radio tower with a wind turbine/cell phone tower combo?

Because plains/ridges offer consistent wind speed with little to no disturbances to the laminar flow of it

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I've been working for a renewable energy contractor for the past decade, hence the origin of my user name. In general, I've never been particularly politically active in relation to topics that impact my living. I never wrote letters to ask for subsidies to support my job when I was asked to early on in my career. I'm not a proponent of building in sensitive areas like I'm not a proponent of the pebble mine. I do think there are a lot of misconceptions about renewables. Nowadays without subsidies wind and solar are at least as cheap as natural gas and notably cheaper than coal or nuke. It would be naive to think that subsidies didn't help the industry mature to where the prices could drop like they have.

I do think development in already disturbed landscapes would be a good thing, but it is going to make the energy much more expensive to do so. Some reasons why it isn't being done:

1. Nobody wants anything "in their back yard"
2. The power needs to be connected and go somewhere
   1. Most little distribution lines are not able to accept many megawatts of intermittent generation
   2. There are many miles of buried collection cable nobody thinks about from all of the wind turbines and within solar arrays. It's a hell of a lot easier to run it through the desert or under a farmers pasture than it is to get approval of the countless easement, utilitiy, right of way, land owner, etc crossings needed in an urban area
3. Simple economies of scale. We typically have 200-1k+ people building a utility scale solar project in damn near assembly line like system. Having wide open space for equipment and room to build quickly makes a big difference in how efficiently you can build a project. Putting 100 panels on a roof top here and another 100 on a rooftop there, finding a way to design all of the complicated electrical interconnection, engineering, and permitting is a far cry from installing a million modules in the middle of the desert with one interconnection point.

 

[hossblur]

I've got inquiries to my local BHA chapter, as well as the National. Why is BHA involving themselves in this? Has anyone got an official answer?

 

[wyoelkfan15]

I'm all for wind energy development. If Wyoming would get the hell out of it's own way and start being more wind friendly with our State legislation there would be a massive economic boost in the State. I constantly hear people griping about the loss of jobs and economic power from the 'war on coal.' The last estimate I heard was that the projects that are just on the books for development in Wyoming, that have yet to be approved, would replace 2/3 of the economic loss due to the coal downturn. Those are jobs and economic incentives that are not subject to the boom and bust cycles of coal. They would provide a constant revenue source, our State is the only one in the union that taxes wind energy, and provide multitudes of jobs for rural communities in the State. Bring on the turbines I say.

 

[SandyCreek]

drive through iowa now.. you don't want those god*mn things anywhere around you. now at night instead of just a nice dark sky its a sea of red lights, and I'm sure it impacts all the wildlife too, how can it not?

 

[hossblur]

I'm all for wind energy development. If Wyoming would get the hell out of it's own way and start being more wind friendly with our State legislation there would be a massive economic boost in the State. I constantly hear people griping about the loss of jobs and economic power from the 'war on coal.' The last estimate I heard was that the projects that are just on the books for development in Wyoming, that have yet to be approved, would replace 2/3 of the economic loss due to the coal downturn. Those are jobs and economic incentives that are not subject to the boom and bust cycles of coal. They would provide a constant revenue source, our State is the only one in the union that taxes wind energy, and provide multitudes of jobs for rural communities in the State. Bring on the turbines I say.

All of that is a fair and understandable point. However. Oil and mining do as well, and for the most part if not totally, BHA opposesd to any new permitting on public land. I cannot find any discussion as to how this is different, nor have my emails been returned asking about it. It sure looks hypocritical on paper, I hope something changes that.

 

[sharpshooter97]

If you are talking about the ones between Marmath and Rhame I drive by those 5 days a week. If the wind is blowing to hard they don’t run. The wind blows all the time in North Dakota so those things are shut down quite often

No it was the the towers north of lake ashtabula. I mostly hunt around home now where thankfully there is no energy development, I just don’t like the change in landscape is all. Landowners can do as they wish with there property but I don’t want to see it on public lands, they are some of the only truly wild places left.