Why Not???

[mixedbag]

Wondering why the westrn states wont allow you to buy points for underage children.It would be great if I could start buying points for my kids before age 12 so they could get a great hunt before 18 yrs old and on youth tags.Is there a reason why they don't??All the states have a points only option that I know of,but a few make you buy a license to apply.States like Co,and Wy don't,so I don't understand how it would be a problem and would help their bottom line a little
Right now, I'm going over states draws to figure out the best hunt I can get my son before he turns 18 with his points I bought him since he was 12.He will still get some real good hunts,but could have gotten even better if I could have bought them before age 12.I want him to get a taste of hunting out there before he graduates,and then he can decide if the hunts are worth the cost to him after that at adult prices.Imagine the difference in a 10 pt hunt compared to a 4 pt hunt for getting a youngster hooked to continue going west as a NR.though the point money may not make a huge difference to the states,having someone that will continue all thru their life to buy points and hunt will.NR know these hunts aren't cheap,and most guys I know don't even start till their mid 30's due to that
Just curious why the states make you wait

 

[iaengineer]

I almost posted the exact question. I just starting buying points for my 12 year old son. I was figuring the best way to get points for him by the time he is 18 and thought too bad he didn't already have 12 points. I can't think of a good reason. They still get there point money doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[1_pointer]

1. Points averaging
2. The point creep caused by #1.

Yes, if I could I would be buying my two sons points.

 

[BuzzH]

If there were not point systems they would have an equal chance...

 

[hank4elk]

THIS.....
as much as I like getting new blood into hunting and all things outdoors,I believe it is a bad idea to give them handouts. They do not go thru a same proceedure as everyone, with same chances to draw.
An entitlement if you will.
NM has a great youth program to get youth into hunting,but they start off with the best tags, in the best hunt period to start.
Sets a bad precedent. IMHO,they get the entitlement/I deserve the best from now on idea way too early.

 

[ida homer]

You wouldn't be getting an advantage in obtaining better tags for him, because others would be doing the same thing. It's simple.

There would be more applicants in the pool, each with more points. But the number of tags is still the same, so it wouldn't benefit you.

+1 for random draw.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I admit, its pretty frustrating for us in the east. Generally we start kids on big game earlier though. Not saying one is right or wrong just different. I kind of like the deal that Montana has. Seems like a good middle ground posistion. However I kinda like that NE has no age restriction.

Then again, if I lived out west the last thing I would worry about is some out of state kid getting to hunt, lmao!

 

[MN Public Hunter]

If there were not point systems they would have an equal chance...

Winner !

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

Realistically the PP's and Bonus point systems only serve the state's revenue and the interest of those people on the committee's who designed them at the time.


Youth only tags are a great option, but people love to complain about them even if they account for ~1% of total harvest in most states. All new hunters should get a crack at good hunting options regardless of their age in my opinion, I've seen too many adult hunters who really had good intentions and drive leave the sport because they had a bad stroke of luck in a really hard place to hunt. Kids should definitely get a chance at what a hunt could be early on or there will be very little retention. Keeping hunters out between the ages of 15-25 is already hard enough from what I've seen.

 

[Elkmagnet]

THIS.....
as much as I like getting new blood into hunting and all things outdoors,I believe it is a bad idea to give them handouts. They do not go thru a same proceedure as everyone, with same chances to draw.
An entitlement if you will.
NM has a great youth program to get youth into hunting,but they start off with the best tags, in the best hunt period to start.
Sets a bad precedent. IMHO,they get the entitlement/I deserve the best from now on idea way too early.

It sounds like you feel entitled to an equal opportunity at those youth tags?

I see the word "entitlement" negatively thrown around about subjects that are possibly things that ever citizen should be equally entitled to. I view wildlife and public ground as such. I have conflicting options about whether or not youth should be allowed to buy points but I also have conflicting interest's pulling me both ways.

I'll say this to promote thought's not arguments-
It's funny how people's opinions of what is right usually happens to further their own agenda's.
I'm certainly not aiming this at you or singling you out as all of us are guilty of this in some way.

 

[hank4elk]

Maybe I should get an old fart pass for those who have never drawn the prime Gila? Waaah,this year!! LOL

I have lots of friends with kids and as I said it's a great program. I never had kids.
I think they could be loosing retention when reality hits later on....

I'm giving a LO cow tag to a teenager this year, who's dad shot a spike by mistake, on a 15 cow hunt.
Guy called local warden and reported it. Turned himself in. I told him he was a stand up guy,true hunter and an excellent mentor for his son.

Warden gave him a warning and the guy got to try and fill the tag that last afternoon. Hope he filled it.
Spike was confiscated.
The Warden had called me to see if I wanted it,like a roadkill. I paid $10. Now I have 2 legal NM elk in my freezer.
I asked for the guys phone # today so I can give him a LO tag for his son.And half the meat.
His son will see being a good citizen has it's rewards,IMHO.

My part of giving back. RMEF member style.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Sounds like a standup crowd especially the Leo. Glad you didn't take my comment wrong.

 

[mixedbag]

I like the random part with Wy but think with the amount of people applying and adding in my luck,sticking with points would be in my favor,lol.I can see it could add point creep,but I'm not sure how many guys actually do this for their kids.I've seen only one nr kid hunting with his Dad so I'm guessing not a lot.I do see some gaining points for their kids to advance themselves though,sadly.In that case, I agree with how Co does things to avoid that

 

[hank4elk]

No problemo.
I do like our local Conservation Officers.
3 of them each get about 4000 sq mi to patrol,solo.

 

[JohnCushman]

So, if your kid can start buying points at a young age, when they can buy an adult tag and they have max point and you've been buying points as well as your friends, that raises the group's point average in an applications...gives an unfair advantage to the group. I also agree that it also would give no advantage to the child as a single applicant because there would be a whole state's worth of kids doing the same thing, so the chances are no better for him. There are plenty of states that give youth special opportunities at tags, so use those programs. I know Colorado sets aside a percentage of tags specifically for youth and gives them opportunity to fill unfilled tags in a late season.

 

[BuzzH]

Speaking only in the case of Wyoming, anyone that complains that youth (NR or R) have "no opportunity", needs to be kicked square in the ass.

NR youth do not need to be gaining points at one year old to have a quality hunt here, they also don't need to be drawing the best tags to have a quality hunt here either.

While I really encourage and like to see youth getting out there, I'm pretty well sick and tired of PARENTS, that believe little Johnnie should get to hunt the best units every year.

Bottom line is most kids just want to be out hunting, they could care less about trophy quality. Its the parents that need to feed their ego's, living vicariously through their kids, that are the problem.

Not to mention, that often times drawing the better tags with a point system can take YEARS. I think more kids would lose interest by having to wait until they are 17-18-19 years old to hunt. Its more important they hunt, as often as possible, than to accrue points chasing a "better unit".

Ask any 12 year old kid if they want to hunt this year in an average unit, or wait 7 years to draw a better tag and hunt when they're 19...

No brainer, too bad many parents are too dense to figure it out.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Speaking only in the case of Wyoming, anyone that complains that youth (NR or R) have "no opportunity", needs to be kicked square in the ass.

NR youth do not need to be gaining points at one year old to have a quality hunt here, they also don't need to be drawing the best tags to have a quality hunt here either.

While I really encourage and like to see youth getting out there, I'm pretty well sick and tired of PARENTS, that believe little Johnnie should get to hunt the best units every year.

Bottom line is most kids just want to be out hunting, they could care less about trophy quality. Its the parents that need to feed their ego's, living vicariously through their kids, that are the problem.

Not to mention, that often times drawing the better tags with a point system can take YEARS. I think more kids would lose interest by having to wait until they are 17-18-19 years old to hunt. Its more important they hunt, as often as possible, than to accrue points chasing a "better unit".

Ask any 12 year old kid if they want to hunt this year in an average unit, or wait 7 years to draw a better tag and hunt when they're 19...

No brainer, too bad many parents are too dense to figure it out.

Right on! Its not about score, points, or status. Kids that are brought up like that never seem to be satisfied and lose interest anyway. Get em out and get hunting. I started my kids with squirrels at 6, and deer at 7. I personally think we lose too many kids to video games and little league because they start at a young age. Being that young has its own set of challenges but moderate ranges, snacks, and realistic expectations take care of most of them.

 

[MtnWest]

Bottom line is most kids just want to be out hunting, they could care less about trophy quality. Its the parents that need to feed their ego's, living vicariously through their kids, that are the problem.

Exactly.

 

[WapitiBob]

You're a good man Hank.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I'm a huge proponent of allowing kids to hunt at a very young age. However I do not support letting kids draw or build points at a young age.

I agree completely with BuzzH that kids are just excited to be out hunting. Let them learn the process and begin building points for an excellent tag when they are old enough to appreciate it.

I am very appreciative and supportive of the mentored hunt program in Montana that lets children start hunting with OTC tags at the age of ten. My ten year old son was thrilled to pass small bucks and finally fill his tag with a whitetail doe. He has no need nor particular desire to kill a bighorn sheep, moose or goat right now. In several years, that desire will be growing along with his bonus points. When and if he finally draws he will appreciate the rarity of drawing a great tag.