Welfare ranchers in MT want even more
- Thread starter BuzzH
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Point Creep
Well-known member
Paul C. Hello from Bozeman.
I think you are making some assumptions in your reply, at least from my perspective.
This proposal, along with the PL/PW are not the answer. Ranching for Rich Guys is a bullshit concept, to put it bluntly. If ranchers need yet another reason to manage their property for wildlife.. let's improve on the Block Mgt method, may it be more money or support from the FWP. Letting landowners sell our wildlife isn't the way to do it.
I think you are making some assumptions in your reply, at least from my perspective.
This proposal, along with the PL/PW are not the answer. Ranching for Rich Guys is a bullshit concept, to put it bluntly. If ranchers need yet another reason to manage their property for wildlife.. let's improve on the Block Mgt method, may it be more money or support from the FWP. Letting landowners sell our wildlife isn't the way to do it.
Muledeer4me
New member
"Nutshell: no one really wants grazing eliminated if proper management practices are followed "
Mar',that pretty much cover's it ,Except---Anyone that has read up on Jon Marvel and his Western Watershed Project know's that proper managment isnt what he is after!!!!
So anyone that is being pointed in that direction should read up real good on Jon Marvel and then decide what he is really after (as well as the motives of anyone that would push his agenda).
Mar',that pretty much cover's it ,Except---Anyone that has read up on Jon Marvel and his Western Watershed Project know's that proper managment isnt what he is after!!!!
So anyone that is being pointed in that direction should read up real good on Jon Marvel and then decide what he is really after (as well as the motives of anyone that would push his agenda).
MarlandS
New member
MD yeah but John marvel isn't a poster here
that's what I was talking about... our little family of posters. Sorry to not make that more clear.
But I do believe you to be right on JM.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-22-2002 13:29: Message edited by: MarlandS ]</font>
But I do believe you to be right on JM.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-22-2002 13:29: Message edited by: MarlandS ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
The threat of having Marvel after them is the only thing that's gotten the ranchers to start paying attention! Good job, Jon Marvel!!
And if you think Marvel is radical you oughta take a look at the Idaho Cattlemen's Assoc.!
They make Marvel look real mild!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-22-2002 14:22: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-22-2002 14:22: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
BigHornyRam
New member
Greenhorn hello from T Falls.
I know my deal says Belgrade, but I move away last spring. Too lazy and stupid to change it. I got fed up with educated idiots and politics in Bozeman. T. Falls is much nicer. I agree with you, this plan is bullshit. We need to come up with something better. Look at what is happening with RMEF. Things are changing fast.
Paul
I know my deal says Belgrade, but I move away last spring. Too lazy and stupid to change it. I got fed up with educated idiots and politics in Bozeman. T. Falls is much nicer. I agree with you, this plan is bullshit. We need to come up with something better. Look at what is happening with RMEF. Things are changing fast.
Paul
Muledeer4me
New member
Mar's ,sorry If I sounded like I was jumping on you for that.
That wasnt my intent.
I just wanted to be clear for any new poster's on who Jon Marvel==Westeren Watershed Project ,Is and who pushes Marvel's agenda all the time!!!!!
That wasnt my intent.
I just wanted to be clear for any new poster's on who Jon Marvel==Westeren Watershed Project ,Is and who pushes Marvel's agenda all the time!!!!!
MarlandS
New member
Oh heck good lookin' I didn't take it as you jumping on me at all.
Ithaca is right about marvel "being right" (atleast in the eyes of the law) or else he wouldn't win the cases that he does... sad but true.
Ithaca is right about marvel "being right" (atleast in the eyes of the law) or else he wouldn't win the cases that he does... sad but true.
dgibson
New member
I have to wonder about the intentions of any group who demands that something be done to aid them and then insists on that aid being done in a way that makes them more money. The ranchers want the herds thinned, but only if they're given special tags that they can sell to the highest bidder. If they were sincere in their desire to reduce the herd, they would be asking hunters to come to their area and hunt their ranch in order to make room for their livestock. They should be asking for special tags to GIVE AWAY. By asking for special tags to SELL they are putting the lie to their supposed intentions. I see nothing but a ploy to make money.
Muledeer4me
New member
Dgibson ,But----------not all the ranchers are doing that.
I happen to know some that wont even put in for landowner tag's ,even though they could make money on it.
They open there land to hunting ,even though some have trashed it.(Large Truck -not ATV )
I asked one rancher why he didnt put in for and sell the tag's,he told me he doesnt think's its the right thing to do to be selling wildlife that doesnt belong to him.
Even though he is at risk of losing everything he has (because of Marvel) he still wont charge people to hunt his land.
Some of the rancher's that close off access have done so because of how some hunter's have abused it.( You know all thoese nasty ATV rider's and gun toter's)
I still find most to be good in giving access to hunt if you take the time to ask and talk to them.
Heck I Steve and I have been stopped on the road while on our ATV and after talking a while have been asked to please come hunt there land.
Mars, Marvel win's because we have the same type of pussy judge's that lean to the left like Marvel and his follower.
We just have to many limp wrists in high places that run with the Jon Marvel type's.
But I see other's are seeing that also and giving the Limp wristed Marvel and his gang a run for his money
Oh yeah baby, the men in the levi's riding a horse verses the limp wristed marvel wearing running short and teve's sitting in his battery powered car .
What a site
I happen to know some that wont even put in for landowner tag's ,even though they could make money on it.
They open there land to hunting ,even though some have trashed it.(Large Truck -not ATV )
I asked one rancher why he didnt put in for and sell the tag's,he told me he doesnt think's its the right thing to do to be selling wildlife that doesnt belong to him.
Even though he is at risk of losing everything he has (because of Marvel) he still wont charge people to hunt his land.
Some of the rancher's that close off access have done so because of how some hunter's have abused it.( You know all thoese nasty ATV rider's and gun toter's)
I still find most to be good in giving access to hunt if you take the time to ask and talk to them.
Heck I Steve and I have been stopped on the road while on our ATV and after talking a while have been asked to please come hunt there land.
Mars, Marvel win's because we have the same type of pussy judge's that lean to the left like Marvel and his follower.
We just have to many limp wrists in high places that run with the Jon Marvel type's.
But I see other's are seeing that also and giving the Limp wristed Marvel and his gang a run for his money
Oh yeah baby, the men in the levi's riding a horse verses the limp wristed marvel wearing running short and teve's sitting in his battery powered car .
What a site
MarlandS
New member
It sounds like you all need to get some more conservative judges elected...
Hand Steve a granola bar for me
Hand Steve a granola bar for me
Ithaca 37
New member
The judges that rule in Marvel's favor used to rule against him every time. He'd appeal it and win. It doesn't look good on a judge's record when they have their judgements overthrown, so they started reading the law more carefully and Marvel's been winning ever since!
Anyone who doesn't like to see Marvel win should just quit whining about it and try to change the law!
And those judges ruling in Marvin's favor are very conservative.
As I've explained over and over to posters too feeble minded to understand it yet-----Marvel has so many flagrant cases of illegal activities by the ranchers and BLM to choose from that he can't lose!
Ranchers hate him because he forces them to obey the law, the judges hate him because he forces them to rule according to the law, and some other people hate him because they have some kind of misguided theory that ranchers should be able to break the law with impunity. If the ranchers, BLM, and State Land Board would obey the law Marvel wouldn't have anything to sue them for. It's that simple.
Anyone who hasn't figured it out by now is stupid.
As I've explained over and over to posters too feeble minded to understand it yet-----Marvel has so many flagrant cases of illegal activities by the ranchers and BLM to choose from that he can't lose!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As I've explained over and over to posters too feeble minded <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
so are you saying that those that don't agree with you are stupid??
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2002 19:13: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>
so are you saying that those that don't agree with you are stupid??
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2002 19:13: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
It's not a question of agreeing with me. The law is clear. The courts rule in Marvel's favor over and over again. Yes, anyone who doesn't realize that Marvel wins because the law is on his side must be stupid. There's no sense trying to find someone else to blame because Marvel wins. And it's a waste of time getting angry at me or Marvel. If you want to get angry at something, get angry at the truth. See how much good that does you!
If you don't agree that Marvel wins because the law is on his side, please explain why he wins.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2002 20:10: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
If you don't agree that Marvel wins because the law is on his side, please explain why he wins.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2002 20:10: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
If you want to see how it would end up if the ranchers had it thier way check out NM. You got ranchers that either sell their tags to assholes like USO or you got ranchers who go out and shoot 40 elk a night because there is too many and he doesnt want to let anyone kill them. A guy like me would never afford to show my son a quality elk hunt in that state unless a major miracle happened and i drew a tag without the bullshit "outfitter preference" of course to hunt on public federal land that USO owns..., i mean USA hunters pay taxes on
Paul, grazing rights are paid for feeding cattle, not raping hunters to hunt elk. If cattle hunting was a new sport i think you have the right idea.
Paul, grazing rights are paid for feeding cattle, not raping hunters to hunt elk. If cattle hunting was a new sport i think you have the right idea.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Like most of you, I think any type of landowner tags are total B.S. They can charge trespass fees if they want to profit from hunting on their land. The states sure shouldn't be also giving them the right to sell the public's wildlife to the highest bidder. Why would the state want to turn hunting into something only the rich can afford to do? It's slowly coming to that anyway, but I don't see any reason to speed that trend along. Makes absolutely no sense.
dgibson
New member
MD, it's too bad that guys like those you're describing get painted with the same brush as the ones pushing for tags. They should get together and let the community know that not all ranchers are money-grubbers. As long as they continue to let the unruly bunch speak for them, they'll never have a say in what happens!
BigHornyRam
New member
I think you guys have misread me. When I said their land thats what I ment. Not leased land. There are a lot of small ranchers out there trying to do a good job, and barely making it. You guy's painting them all as welfare ranchers is not true. Say it to their face and I would guess you'ld come away with a jar full of teeth. Any rancher reading the rhetoric on this board is saying to himself, F U guys see if you'll ever hunt on my land.
Push these guys into selling out to the Turners of the world and you will never hunt that land again. Put yourself in the ranchers shoes for one minute. If you guy's owned the land you might see things a little differnt.
Paul
Push these guys into selling out to the Turners of the world and you will never hunt that land again. Put yourself in the ranchers shoes for one minute. If you guy's owned the land you might see things a little differnt.
Paul
My family owns a nice little chunk of ground that we lease to a rancher to keep his cattle on, There are several posters from this board that would get laughed out of the county if they asked to hunt!! There are others I would welcome in a heartbeat.
"walefare ranchers"== what a joke!!
just like in every walk of life you have good and bad, then you have assholes that love to paint with a very broad brush.
"walefare ranchers"== what a joke!!
just like in every walk of life you have good and bad, then you have assholes that love to paint with a very broad brush.
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