My life is here, and Trudeau is as good as gone anyways thankfully. I’d only move to New Zealand at this point and it would be hard to convince the ol lady to do it. Neither of the candidates who might run the US for the next four years inspire much confidence to be honest.
Weight Loss Drugs
- Thread starter Elky Welky
- Start date
My life is here, and Trudeau is as good as gone anyways thankfully. I’d only move to New Zealand at this point and it would be hard to convince the ol lady to do it. Neither of the candidates who might run the US for the next four years inspire much confidence to be honest.
Unfortunately you can't exercise your way out of an unhealthy diet, it takes discipline in both arenas. Especially as you push north of fifty.
One of the interesting things is that everyone seems to focus on weight as being the marker of health. Which makes sense, as the associations between obesity, metabolic disease, chronic disease, and lifespan are undeniable.
However, a book i'm reading points out that something like 20% of overweight/obese folks are metabolically healthy and will live a normal lifespan and conversely something like 20% of normal weight individuals are metabolically unhealthy (pre diabetic or diabetic). I don't remember the exact percentages but it's something like that.
At the end of the day, a bad diet will shorten your life or at the least make your lifespan less enjoyable, whether you're an individual who struggles with weight or not. A shitty diet slowly destroys your organs no matter how big your belly is.
However, a book i'm reading points out that something like 20% of overweight/obese folks are metabolically healthy and will live a normal lifespan and conversely something like 20% of normal weight individuals are metabolically unhealthy (pre diabetic or diabetic). I don't remember the exact percentages but it's something like that.
At the end of the day, a bad diet will shorten your life or at the least make your lifespan less enjoyable, whether you're an individual who struggles with weight or not. A shitty diet slowly destroys your organs no matter how big your belly is.
I'm 5'8" with top end weight at 240. I weigh 195 after starting with Ozempic and then switching to Mounjaro after the 'Ozempic effect' wore off. I'm the chubby dude whose momma told him "you're not fa-att, you're just bi-ig". I'm not diabetic, yet. Mounjaro took me the rest of the way. I gained significant relief from plantar fascitis, stopped snoring, got better sleep, and reduced back pain; to be less heavy is where it's at. I'm not afraid of sweating and breathing hard. Football and conditioning broke me at an early age, so pain is an acceptable part of the formula whether it's to 'try' to lose weight or get in mountain shape.
I'm still 25 pounds overweight, but not obese. My health insurance was paying most of it; my portion: $25. Now it costs me $500 since health insurance requires me to have a diabetes diagnosis to get the reduced rate. Now, I'm working with my doctor and more exercise to get an alternative solution.
I had some side effects and thought I had a rare strain of the stomach bug. I've had an assortment of diarrhea, cramps, and vomiting over the years from various causes, but this glp or tirzeptidie takes the cake. I haven't had appendicitis, but I think I have a good idea of what it feels like now. For a year of taking this stuff, I only had these effects like 3-4 times and frankly, it's worth it.
Before these meds, there was something that took over me when I was eating and my mind just got obsessed with finishing the plate and getting more. The meds gave me the ability to stop and say, "enough". I'm not proud of my diet and poor exercise choices, but I have a host of other abilities and achievements I thrive at. I even started to get a little smug and sanctimonious as I looked over at larger people with pity. I pray I keep catching myself before arrogance gets the best of me. I am happy to surrender to the side of compassion. Having a strong, subjective tendency to overeat is unbearable at times. Knowing that this is a subjective force is even more frustrating than a visible disability (I have one of these too).
For those of you who keep saying it's diet, self-control, exercise, or willpower. Do you want us to kiss your ring? You have been clapped for and you are not helping. By the time we get our fat ass to the doctor and ask for this alternative, please appreciate that we have considered that much more than you realize. We all have our struggles; some on the surface and others in the closet.
I'm thankful for the chance with a year of these drugs regardless of the few times of horrible stomach bug issues. I'm hopeful that my health insurer will be able to concede for coverage before I get myself in a bind with diabetes. For now, I will continue to do the best I can.
In other words, using layman's math, you're 4x more likely to be metabolically unhealthy if you are overweight/obese.
I agree, weight isn't the whole picture and the BMI scale is a pile of horse manure. Body fat % if likely a much better measurement to track but it's not easy to track accurately. Either way, from you're comments, 80% of overweight/obese people would be well served to lose weight.
There's an interesting movement going on in the background that paints overall musculature as a big indicator of overall health, particularly muscle mass in mid-life leading to healthier late life and avoiding something called Sarcopenic Obesity. As I understand it, Sarcopenic Obesity is the concurrent loss of muscle and increase of fat as one ages (kind of like the term "skinny fat" that got thrown around for a while. "Healthy" weight, but weak and feeble). I personally have elderly family members who monitor their weight and it is reasonable, but they have such little muscle left that they can't hardly function in real life, i.e. walking around a store or up/down stairs.
I posted a podcast earlier between Gabrielle Lyons and Jocko Willink where she talks about muscle based fitness and the link between higher muscle mass and better overall health. The link relates to hormone and blood chemical regulation associated with the muscles. I'm no expert and won't expound further, but it's worth some Googling for the average Joe.
I personally think society would be best served if instead of saying "you're 4x more likely to be metabolically unhealthy is you are overweight/obese" - which is true, but i feel it implies a causation that I don't think is proper - instead we reframe our thinking to say "diets that lead to diabetes are also going to lead to obesity in most people."
In other words, I don't think obesity is causing diabetes, per se, but diets that lead to diabetes are overwhelmingly going to lead to weight gain and obesity in the majority of people. Now, whether or not an individual is aggressively prone to that weight gain is dependent on genetics and those with those genetics are the ones that unable to push away that plate of processed sugar infused carbs cause they never feel full unlike those skinny folks. Those skinny folks don't have some magical willpower the chubbies don't, rather, their body chemistry just seems to be working such that, when they're full, they're full, and they often feel it sooner, and they walk away. But that skinny guy could still drink enough mt dew to fry his liver and pancreas and get diabetes without every looking any bigger.
Of course, i'm no doctor and the nuances are endless. But in general, I do think that's a better way to think about obesity.
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I think the real issue with Ozempic is that it doesn't just help you lose fat, but much of what is lost is muscle weight as well. Muscle mass plays a big role in metabolic health and is extremely beneficial to carry into older age. My mother in law is obsessed with weight loss even though she isn't that big, she just is 'in that world' so to speak where looks mean a lot. She used Ozempic for a little while and lost significant weight, but also lost a lot of muscle and she didn't have a lot to begin with. Stairs are difficult for her to climb and she just seems tired all the time. If people want to lose weight and feel better I just tell them to eat 80% meat and the rest fruits and veggies. No one does it because they think they'll have a heart attack.
belshawelk
Well-known member
Agreed. I am north of fifty but you can also eat as healthy as you want and be out of shape. To me healthy isn't always a weight or a shape ( yes carrying extra weight is not good). to me healthy is your heart, lungs and mind.
I have a buddy who eats perfectly, lifts weights almost every day, strong as an ox. Took him elk hinting a couple years ago and he damn near died. You got to get out and run, walk WITH weight on your back, and be able to do so without stopping for water every 2 minutes.
Just my 2 useless cents
Jamen
Well-known member
The BMI calculator is a joke IMO unless you actually go in and get it professionally done. Food is an addiction like anything else. I use to eat way more than i should. I encourage everyone to talk with a professional if you are struggling. Tell them your goals and listen to their plan. Then actually weigh your food, eye balling chicken and rice will only get you so far. I was taken back at what i thought was a portion of healthy food but weighing it i was well over 2x serving size. It is not fun at first, you will be hungry, you will get irritated, you will be HANGRY at times. But it is worth it. I am not where i want to be yet but im on course to get there. One thing that took a long time to set in for me is this isnt just going to be a "diet". I had to change my lifestyle. It will get easier you'll be able to go back and indulge on your favorite foods. But you will have to live with a new normal.
Weight loss isn't linear, don't get caught up in the day-to-day weight. One day i may be 1.5 LBS over the previous the next i am down 3. Being healthy isnt about how you look, its about feeling healthy. I still got fat but i haven't felt this great in my almost 33 years on this rock.
I am not a coach nor expert but if you are struggling shoot me a message. I can tell you some of my go to meals i did, or the struggles i had and how i am dealing with them.
Stay the course it is worth it! And get your protein in!!
Weight loss isn't linear, don't get caught up in the day-to-day weight. One day i may be 1.5 LBS over the previous the next i am down 3. Being healthy isnt about how you look, its about feeling healthy. I still got fat but i haven't felt this great in my almost 33 years on this rock.
I am not a coach nor expert but if you are struggling shoot me a message. I can tell you some of my go to meals i did, or the struggles i had and how i am dealing with them.
Stay the course it is worth it! And get your protein in!!
BirdManMike
Well-known member
This is a bad take IMO.
Two of the most obese demographics - the rural and the impoverished - dont fall under the umbrellas of the woke -- the rural because they reject it and the impoverished because they lack the mental energy for it (energy, not capacity - being poor is hard). Wokeness is a privilege of the affluent, who are also much less obese on average.
The ratio of land whale to normal-sized person in every small town and impoverished city is far higher than that of an affluent neighborhood/suburb of a large city. And within any city itself - the ratio of land whales in affluent areas is far lower than that of the surrounding impoverished neighborhoods. Both the men and women in rural America are generally shaped like a well-fed cow. The obesity rate in men in working areas - farming and ranching - can be slightly better, but even then half the fellas mounted atop noble, mechanical steed appear roughly cow-shaped as they move their bovine doppelgangers to the next pasture.
Its no different in Canada. Walk around Cardston, or Pincher Creek, or even Lethbridge people watching after doing the same in downtown Calgary for a real eye opener. Quebec, too - I used to spend a fair bit of time in the province and the difference in body shape of the people walking around downtown Quebec City any given day is a real contrast to the generally walrus-shaped populace of any and every town on Gaspesie.
These non-hippopotomii city dwellers - in addition to being more affluent - are always them that claim to be woke.
The real reason for so many fatties is Capitalism. At some point, some fat cat (figuratively fat, in the case, not necessarily literally robust) realized he could mass produce a bunchve cheap, heavily refined, unnatural, unhealthy garbage into a dopamine-hit-in-a-bag-or-box that could be easily marketed and sold inexpensively to an under-educated, impoverished, and (generally) less physically active demographic. Other fat cats all caught on - all joining in on the fun - until the only thing available on a shelf in impoverished and/or rural Merka (or Canada) became as box (or bag) of cheap, heavily refined, unnatural, unhealthy garbage.
Nothing - of course - can be done about this. People have the right to chose to eat garbage (and fat cats have the right to make money by selling these people garbage) so we shouldnt limit this right. That would be Socialism, something we cant abide.
Your average woke liberal hippie lives in a house they rent with four other woke liberal hippies cause they're all too poor to afford their own place.
And you're reading into it the completely wrong way as well - I'm not saying woke people are fat. Thats completely off base with what I was saying, so completely off base it makes me wonder how you came to that conclusion. I'm saying the way that society has gone has encouraged people to take a perverse pride in being obese, thats its 'not their fault', that their own decisions did not get them there, and that expecting people to take care of themselves or suffer the consequences is a now somehow a form of bigotry. This applies to rural, impoverished, affluent, whoever - they're all a part of society, regardless of where and how they live.
BirdManMike
Well-known member
I didnt read wrong, I am saying you are wrong.
Everyone didnt become fat because society determined it OK to be fat; everyone became fat then society determined it OK to be fat. Society wouldve coped the same had The Burgeoning (TM) happened in 1850 or whenever.
Bullshit. There is way more acceptance of obesity now that enables the type of lifestyle and behaviour that I was pointing out. There is way less societal pressure to not be a whale. Yes fat people always existed, and sure whatever the hell 'the Burgeoning' is or cheap food probably helped, but nowadays, which is what I'm talking about, people don't feel bad about letting themselves go, cause you're a dick if you call it out.
I wasn't debating how or why it became this way. I'm talking about how society has become accepting/enabling of it in the present day. You're the one debating root causes like you're writing a thesis or something lol
BirdManMike
Well-known member
406dn
Well-known member
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Actually, you are a dick for commenting on other people's bodies. Take care of your own, and call it good.
For most of my 73 years, I have not struggled too hard to be lean. It was, more or less, the genetic cards dealt to me. It became more difficult once I could no longer handle playing full court basketball, somewhere around age 43-45. After that, I packed a belly at times, and dieted it off at others.
The thing that made staying pretty lean easier was when I began weightlifting. It has a powerful effect on the body. I gained a decent amount of muscle mass and lost a good amount of body fat. I will do it, for the remainder of my days. The problem with weightlifting, is most people just don't enjoy it enough to stay with it, long term. Also, many people don't really challenge themselves enough.
In my case, @73 years old, I do not take any prescription drugs. I take some vitamin d and fish oil pills. All of my blood work is normal. Some portion of that is that I do exercise regularly and vigorously, but a good share of it is the genetic hand dealt to me. That genetic portion is nothing to be smug about, no one gets to choose their parents.
I do think that our diet rich in various grains is a major factor why obesity is so common. That and the fact that most of us do not work hard physically. Some one 150 years ago, would have looked at going to the gym as a waste of time, they did not have.
I don't comment on other people's bodies without provocation. Believe it or not, most people know how to act in society. I just don't think the current 'fat is beautiful' or 'I am who I am so why work at changing it' ideology in current society is healthy. This thread asked for an opinion on a weight loss drug. I gave an opinion. You get bent out of shape about it, thats not my problem.
Genetics play a part yes. But a fairly minor one all told. My parents are both far under 6 feet and very slight. I am over 6 ft and not slight at all. Should I not be possible or something? All my genetics came from them. Its because my parents valued feeding me a balanced diet, developing proper lifestyle habits like for example a good sleep schedule and hygiene, and engaging me in physical activity, and I've carried on with all of this all my life.
I'm not saying people need to look a certain way to be considered healthy. In another post, I stated BMI is outdated and incorrect measurement of physical fitness. It expects people to look a certain way to be considered healthy. If I thought that way, would I have stated that?
Your post is exactly proving my point. When you didn't put in the work, it had a negative effect. When you did put in the work, it had a positive effect. Who could have ever guessed? No drugs, no surgeries, just putting in the work to improve your situation. If more people did that, if that was an aspect of our society that was more vital, shit like Ozempic wouldn't be needed. But people like the easy way out and to be coddled. Thats what I meant by 'pussification'. Your body, for the most part, is what you put into it and what you do to build or destroy it.
Your post is also proving my other point that I had originally. Express any opinions on the subject of physical fitness or obesity that doesn't explicitly coddle those who may not be as active as they should be, and they jump down your throat.
you just proved yourself a dick, yet again.
You know you can just ignore my posts instead of malding all over every one I make right? Get a life lol don't really know how that makes me a dick. I don't comment on peoples bodies at all unless I'm asked. Also picking out certain parts of what I typed to fit your narrative is 10 ply behaviour. Try to speak with your chest next time.
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Benfromalbuquerque
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Do Canadians even get an opinion on this USA issue? I say you all should frig off and give yer balls a tug.
You know what they say about opinions…
