Warden search authority?

[KRasmussen]

This past weekend and friend and myself were on a dove hunt that was in a state managed ecological preserve in the central valley of CA. It was a special draw and the state only allowed 40 hunters on the property for the one day hunt. It was a nice day but the birds were few and far between. I did manage to take 5 before it was all said and done.
During our day we saw a state warden patrolling the area and even had one hunter pulled over. We later learned the hunter was cited for having a loaded weapon in the vehicle.
It was a hot day, 100* plus, and we had decided to take a break. Our guns were stowed inside the truck, in soft cases, unloaded and on the floor board behind the front seat. All of the doors to the truck were closed and windows rolled up, the guns were not visible from the outside. As we sat in the shade the warden pulled up and jumped out of his truck. He stated as he approached he was checking licenses, any game taken and guns. Both my partner and I gave the necessary paperwork and pulled the few birds from the cooler. He then walked over to the passenger side of the truck and opened the door while at the same time stating he was going to check guns. I have a problem with this, but let it go. He went through each firearm carefully. After he finished he said the first gun he looked at, which was mine, was capable of holding more than the max of 3 shells. Whoa, wait. I have a wooded plug in the gun. He did say that it was not easy and he had to check it twice but was able to get 3 of "his" shells in the magazine. But he was only able to get 2 of the 12ga shells that were on the buttstock in the mag.
At this point the warden said, "I could cite you for the gun issue, but I see you are attempting to do the right thing and will not." Gee, how generous. I never did see what type of shells he originally placed in the magazine. I just know they were not mine, he pulled them from his pocket.
I did disassemble the gun and checked the plug, and to make him happy I cut a spent hull in half and placed it in the tube on the plug to reduce the capacity even further.
My big problem with the whole incident is that he opened the truck and started pulling guns out without saying a damn thing. Does he have the authority to search a vehicle without consent?

 

[shoots-straight]

My understanding is that game wardens have broader search powers granted to them because they aren't able to get to a judge in time to do any good.

I'm not a fan either.

 

[sweetnectar]

If your guns were not in plain view, your doors were closed and he did not have your consent then I'd say no.

 

[brownbear932008]

Long Long story short yes they have that right. Thier search authority is much much broader than a normal law enforcement officer say (Trooper,Deputy,Ect.). Lots of case law on this stuff out there I'm sure. Of coarse sounds like he could have approached things a little differently but each his own I guess as far as that.

 

[BOHNTR]

As a former game warden in the Golden State I can tell you the search is valid, as he has the authority to ensure the weapons are safe and stored correctly. He also has the authority to search the vehicle for additional birds based on the fact you already had some.

As for "much broader authority to search" over other law enforcement agencies in the state, that is not correct. The same amount of probable cause needs to be established. However, case law has allowed game wardens, or any law enforcement officer for that matter, to conduct warrantless searches in situations where potential danger or loss of evidence can be articulated. This would apply in your situation the moment you acknowledge that you are hunting. That's why a warden will always ask you if you're hunting?

 

[shoots-straight]

As for "much broader authority to search" over other law enforcement agencies in the state, that is not correct. The same amount of probable cause needs to be established. However, case law has allowed game wardens, or any law enforcement officer for that matter, to conduct warrantless searches in situations where potential danger or loss of evidence can be articulated. This would apply in your situation the moment you acknowledge that you are hunting. That's why a warden will always ask you if you're hunting?

So what your saying is they don't have broader search authority, but they do have a little bit more.

 

[Elkmagnet]

They do need to teach wardens some manners. They are the face of the agency but they treat you like a criminal while checking you for barbless hooks.

Some are really nice . . .some think they are DEA and you have drugs up your...

 

[spook12]

case law has allowed game wardens, or any law enforcement officer for that matter, to conduct warrantless searches in situations where potential danger or loss of evidence can be articulated. This would apply in your situation the moment you acknowledge that you are hunting.

I'm not seeing any ''Potential danger'' nor ''Potential loss of evidence'' in the OP'S statement.
In his post he never stated that he was asked for access to his Firearms and denied the officer that access.
In reading over the Reg's in the states I've hunted they usually state something to the effect that you must turn over any Weapons, Fishing tackle,ETC, for inspection when asked to do so,by an officer in the performance of his duties. So we shouldn't be surprised when asked if we are or have been hunting that we are then asked to surrender our Weapons for inspection.I think most people would consider that ''Reasonable''.
There's no doubt that an Officer can't always wait for a Warrant for fear of losing evidence,But there should be ''Some '' evidence of a crime before they decide to effect a search on our personal property.IMO ''Acknowledging that you are hunting'' is not evidence of a crime.

 

[utah400elk]

I have worked in Law Enforcement for 16 years and as a detective/criminal investigator for 14 years (two years as a patrol officer). I will simply say that BOHNTR's statements are are huge strech if not out right wrong. Just because you are hunting does not equal a "potential danger or loss of evidence". It is a common held belief by game wardens that they have PC to search your vehicle if you are hunting. There has to be PC of a crime in order for a search to be conducted. Simply hunting DOES NOT equall PC that a crime has been committed. Also the US Supreme court has long held that officer saftey does not trump the 4th ammendment.

 

[ismith]

He should have asked permission to search your vehicle first.

 

[KRasmussen]

He should have asked permission to search your vehicle first.

Thank you. I do not have a problem showing any officer my weapons if asked to do so. I just wish he would have asked prior to opening the back door.

 

[oldman357]

A game warden only needs a reasonable belief that a person has recently been fishing or hunting to conduct a search. says the supreme court.

see also People v. Maikhio

 

[The Hedgehog]

The latitude at which a game warden can do a full body cavity search is what attracts many to that line of work. So it seems.

 

[ridge-runner]

A game warden only needs a reasonable belief that a person has recently been fishing or hunting to conduct a search. says the supreme court.

see also People v. Maikhio

That's why you always reply "the guns are for protection, the orange is so I don't get shot by a hunter, the dog is my companion, my backpack is full of camping gear, and I'm doing a river clean up; that's why there's all this fishing gear and empty beer cans."

It works sixty percent of the time, every time.

 

[ida homer]

It's kind of similar to how F&G have the right to enter obvious private land without permission, if they suspect hunting/fishing. They do seem to have some more leeway with that sort of thing than regular law enforcement.

Our fish cop buddy floats the river and when he passes by adjacent fields with people hunting waterfowl in them, he can literally stop and walk across a private corn field to check licenses.

I'm still not a huge fan of these things, the least the warden could do is ask permission to enter private land or search your vehicle. It would come off much more polite.

 

[Jwill]

Need to lock the truck.

 

[BOHNTR]

So what your saying is they don't have broader search authority, but they do have a little bit more.

Not just exclusively to wardens.....any law enforcement official. Just so happens wardens tend to contact sportsmen (in the filed) more often than other law enforcement officials. This is why many feel that wardens themselves have more "authority". Truth is, they do not.

I have worked in Law Enforcement for 16 years and as a detective/criminal investigator for 14 years (two years as a patrol officer). I will simply say that BOHNTR's statements are are huge strech if not out right wrong. Just because you are hunting does not equal a "potential danger or loss of evidence". It is a common held belief by game wardens that they have PC to search your vehicle if you are hunting. There has to be PC of a crime in order for a search to be conducted. Simply hunting DOES NOT equall PC that a crime has been committed. Also the US Supreme court has long held that officer satfey does not trump the 4th ammendmen

If you truly are a 16 year veteran, perhaps you should research case law on the issue asked before spewing your rhetoric. I've been in this business (still am) for over 26 years. Law enforcement (wardens, deputies, etc.) once they have established you are hunting have the right to ensure the legal bag limits are adhered to, shotguns are plugged, loaded weapons are not in vehicles, the correct ammunition is being used (non-lead in certain areas), etc.. Happens everyday and citations are upheld in court when violations are filed. Review the entire decision oldman357 posted....might be beneficial for you.

They do need to teach wardens some manners.

I would definitely agree with you there!

 

[Muleyfanatic]

Ever watch the TV show Wild Justice where they follow around California game wardens. They pretty much depict all hunters as being law breaking poachers and very rarely show or thank real hunters.

 

[ismith]

The latitude at which a game warden can do a full body cavity search is what attracts many to that line of work. So it seems.

Is that what makes hunting in California and hog hunting in Colorado so similar?:hump:

 

[ismith]

If you truly are a 16 year veteran, perhaps you should research case law on the issue asked before spewing your rhetoric. I've been in this business (still am) for over 26 years. Law enforcement (wardens, deputies, etc.) once they have established you are hunting have the right to ensure the legal bag limits are adhered to, shotguns are plugged, loaded weapons are not in vehicles, the correct ammunition is being used (non-lead in certain areas), etc.. Happens everyday and citations are upheld in court when violations are filed. Review the entire decision oldman357 posted....might be beneficial for you.

Case law is a slippery slope and sooner or later some "judge" is going to say that its "ok" for an "LE" officer to cavity search every "suspected" hunter. You know, just to make sure you or your wife or 17 year old daughter isn't hiding anything harmful or illegal like a box of 12 gauge shells with lead shot, or a kilo of crack cocaine.