Leupold BX-4 Rangefinding Binoculars

Utah Hunt expo -SMH

Couldn't this same thing be said about, SCI, sheep show, shot show and all other similiar trade shows?
Yup.

And there are degrees of difference in all of them. Not a defense to any of it, but a few differences worth noting.

SHOT SHOW is an industry show. Does not have tag auctions or even the slightest pretense that it is about conservation. It is the big show for the National Shooting Sports Foundation and is all about the industry gathering to promote their wares and write as many sales orders as possible. You have to look hard for any conservation aspects to this show. Same could be said for ATA, which is the trade show for the Archery Trade Association.

I think one of the reasons the Utah Expo is the focal point for criticism is the volume of tags taken from the draw that go to the same bidders year after year, purchased on their behalf by their agents who will end up guiding them on these hunts. Most the events that I attend will have one or two statewide/provincal-wide tag from each state/province, with the majority of the other auctioned hunts being donated guided hunts. Those guided hunts don't take opportunity out of the pocket of the general public in the way that statewide tags do.

At the Utah Expo, the overwhelming majority of these auctioned items are taken from the pool of tags that the general public could draw if the tags were left in public draw. And, there is some really fuzzy accounting and almost zero transparency in how the funds are used from both the auction and raffle tags. When you are talking this many millions of dollars, it seems only appropriate that a level of public transparency and accountability is appropriate.

If the tags were all like the AZ tags, where 100% of the money has to go back to AZ G&F, I think the criticisms would be less. That money goes to AZ and is earmarked for conservation of that species. There is no 10-30% selling commission on the AZ tags. And, Arizona, like most other states, keeps the number of tags to a small handful.

Additionally, in awarding the UT Expo contract the organizations submitting for the contract must demonstrate how much business their Expo plans will generate for the SLC economy. That is to be part of the scoring when awarding the contract. I think most question what purpose wildlife allocation serves in funding metropolitan economic activity. They are diametrically opposite activities, or at least I thought they were.

Lastly, if not for these auction and raffle tags in Utah, the financial health, possibly the solvency, of two groups would be dramatically different. Are public assets meant to keep conservation organizations afloat? If one thinks that is a useful purpose, then those organizations at a minimum should submit to a public audit of what they are doing with those proceeds, something that, to my knowledge, has never happened for the two groups sponsoring the Utah Expo.

The fact that people are questioning these auction-type events should serve as a warning to the groups sponsoring them that the public wants to know where the money is being used. It is a Public Trust asset, tags and hunting opportunity, that is being sold. It is reasonable, I'd say necessary, for the public to ask if the Trustees are getting a good return for the Beneficiaries when these public trust assets are being sold to the highest bidder. That requires transparency and accountability.

As a CPA whose main work was trust taxation and administration, I nerd out on this Public Trust stuff. I think these comments and concerns are helpful in determining if the Trustees are getting the public Beneficiaries a good deal in how these trust assets are being doled out.
 
Yup.

And there are degrees of difference in all of them. Not a defense to any of it, but a few differences worth noting.

SHOT SHOW is an industry show. Does not have tag auctions or even the slightest pretense that it is about conservation. It is the big show for the National Shooting Sports Foundation and is all about the industry gathering to promote their wares and write as many sales orders as possible. You have to look hard for any conservation aspects to this show. Same could be said for ATA, which is the trade show for the Archery Trade Association.

I think one of the reasons the Utah Expo is the focal point for criticism is the volume of tags taken from the draw that go to the same bidders year after year, purchased on their behalf by their agents who will end up guiding them on these hunts. Most the events that I attend will have one or two statewide/provincal-wide tag from each state/province, with the majority of the other auctioned hunts being donated guided hunts. Those guided hunts don't take opportunity out of the pocket of the general public in the way that statewide tags do.

At the Utah Expo, the overwhelming majority of these auctioned items are taken from the pool of tags that the general public could draw if the tags were left in public draw. And, there is some really fuzzy accounting and almost zero transparency in how the funds are used from both the auction and raffle tags. When you are talking this many millions of dollars, it seems only appropriate that a level of public transparency and accountability is appropriate.

If the tags were all like the AZ tags, where 100% of the money has to go back to AZ G&F, I think the criticisms would be less. That money goes to AZ and is earmarked for conservation of that species. There is no 10-30% selling commission on the AZ tags. And, Arizona, like most other states, keeps the number of tags to a small handful.

Additionally, in awarding the UT Expo contract the organizations submitting for the contract must demonstrate how much business their Expo plans will generate for the SLC economy. That is to be part of the scoring when awarding the contract. I think most question what purpose wildlife allocation serves in funding metropolitan economic activity. They are diametrically opposite activities, or at least I thought they were.

Lastly, if not for these auction and raffle tags in Utah, the financial health, possibly the solvency, of two groups would be dramatically different. Are public assets meant to keep conservation organizations afloat? If one thinks that is a useful purpose, then those organizations at a minimum should submit to a public audit of what they are doing with those proceeds, something that, to my knowledge, has never happened for the two groups sponsoring the Utah Expo.

The fact that people are questioning these auction-type events should serve as a warning to the groups sponsoring them that the public wants to know where the money is being used. It is a Public Trust asset, tags and hunting opportunity, that is being sold. It is reasonable, I'd say necessary, for the public to ask if the Trustees are getting a good return for the Beneficiaries when these public trust assets are being sold to the highest bidder. That requires transparency and accountability.

As a CPA whose main work was trust taxation and administration, I nerd out on this Public Trust stuff. I think these comments and concerns are helpful in determining if the Trustees are getting the public Beneficiaries a good deal in how these trust assets are being doled out.
Thank you for you're well worded and thorough response Randy. I haven't been to the Expo since I was about 10 years old and have never been to any of the other shows either. We do go support our local RMEF banquet every year, because we are solidly behind RMEF's mission. I was going to take my 3 oldest boys to the expo this year, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it because I hate $Fw. I decided I would rather put my time and money into some more local grass roots type stuff. After the amount of garbage I found while hunting last fall I think I am going to try and put together a work day were I can get as many people as possible to go out and clean up trash on National Forest land.
 
Thanks for your response Randy. When you say that Arizona’s tags require 100% of the money go back to the game and fish, are you speaking about the Arizona tags that are auctioned off at the Expo or were you refering to other events AZ participates in? I’ve been curious how the money is channeled for all of those expo auction tags for states like AZ, NM, NV, CA, NE, ID, MT, OR, WA, etc.

I have to admit that I’m a giant hypocrite when it comes to this expo. I don’t like it for all the reasons abounding with transparency and the overwhelming influence SFW has with the Utah DWR. BUT I am one of those who do apply for several of the tags at the draw they hold. The reason, because it increases my chances to hunt in Utah. It may be ever so very slight of a increase in chance but it is an increase none the less. I’m not in a position in life right now where I can be gone for weeks at a time to hunt out of state so I deal with the setup I have in Utah. It is what it is.
 
Any AZ tags, at any event, require 100% of the proceeds to go back to AZ. That is for all species. I think they give two auction tags for each species, each year. No matter what event the tag is sold at 100% goes back to AZ. So, the $400K that the deer tag sold for at the Expo will go 100% to AZ G&F, the same as the AZ sheep tag that sold at the WSF event last month.
 
Randy while smart, forgets to mention BGF, Hunt Nation, Peay Consulting, Red River Outfitters, as just a few more of the wonderful groups Don Peay uses which enrich themselves off off of Utah Wildlife

As to the Utard thing. It's fair game at my house. In fairness, my companies hats are camo, so theres that.

But, you all pretend there isn't flat brimmer's, with porn staches, drinking IPA, driving Toyotas shooting 6.5 creedmores in Montana? You guys don't have mirrors up there?
 
My, aren't we all so special? Reading this thread, I would have thought I was eavesdropping on the snobby tittering of a group of high school "mean girls" deriding those not in the cool crowd. I guess the HT illuminati have spoken and we all need to fall in line.
I visited the expo and saw people in camo, just like I do everywhere in the West and South - yes, even in Montana. I prefer to see it differently. I see fathers and children in similar camo and imagine the child's excitement in getting to dress up with dad and go see all of the mounted animals, guns, and booths that speak of maybe-some-day dreams and hoped-for adventures. I see aging men in camo who may not have the health or comrades to venture far into the hills anymore but want, on this one day, to feel a part of the hunting community again. Yes, I also see young guys in expensive camo but maybe also wanting to declare their open allegiance in some way to a threatened way of life and sense of outdoor identity. But, based on the time invested in the thousands of posts you guys make, my guess is that your camo doesn't get much of a workout in the open air either.
Unfortunately, the sophomoric commentary in this thread is a disservice to a valuable conversation and, instead, suggests an inability to muster a meaningful argument. Certainly, there can be mature discussions about the policies of different groups, the commercialization of wildlife and the outdoors (a grand irony on a website festooned with sponsor ads), and public lands policy but there is precious little in this thread that rises above arrogant, juvenile taunts and not so thinly veiled derisive religious epithets. And, regarding commercialization, just as Randy's worthwhile advocacy for public hunting policy requires financial support in the form of commercial interests (unless he's decided to rely exclusively on a Go Fund Me campaign that I haven't heard about), and just as RMEF's worthwhile goals require support of some commercial enterprises (judging by the embarrassing volume of junk mail promotions I get from them), and the list could on and on. There is, simply, an uncomfortable marriage of convenience between commerce and wildlife that sustains most of the organizations and causes that we value. As with most things in life, there is a line. We can debate where that line should properly be drawn but silly ad hominem attacks don't lead to enlightenment.
You do realize Moosie started Hunttalk right??
This place was founded on “deriding” people.
 
I've been looking online to find any information as to whether or not SFW had their contract extended another 5 years and haven't been able to find anything. I know that the original 5 years would have expired after 2021, but given COVID canceling last year's show does SFW get an extra year, or was the contract extended?
 
I've been looking online to find any information as to whether or not SFW had their contract extended another 5 years and haven't been able to find anything. I know that the original 5 years would have expired after 2021, but given COVID canceling last year's show does SFW get an extra year, or was the contract extended?

This is from 2019 and it states the contract expired in 2021. I'm pretty sure I read that it had been extended. The Expo website has dates scheduled to 2027.

 
Any AZ tags, at any event, require 100% of the proceeds to go back to AZ. That is for all species. I think they give two auction tags for each species, each year. No matter what event the tag is sold at 100% goes back to AZ. So, the $400K that the deer tag sold for at the Expo will go 100% to AZ G&F, the same as the AZ sheep tag that sold at the WSF event last month.
Good for Arizona. We here in Utah apparently want to continue to allow Mr Peay to stuff his wallet full of cash.
 
I've been looking online to find any information as to whether or not SFW had their contract extended another 5 years and haven't been able to find anything. I know that the original 5 years would have expired after 2021, but given COVID canceling last year's show does SFW get an extra year, or was the contract extended?
Yes.

They did
 
This thread is pure gold!

Born and raised Utahan here - the Utard jokes are hilarious!! To my fellow Utahan brethern - chill out. We are a weird freaking bunch.

I attended the Sheep Camp deal on Saturday - congrats to all those who won sheep hunts!! I stopped counting how many times I heard the following terms walking through the expo:

Stud
Dude
Giant
Sick
Epic

My nine year old son said, "Dad is it cold in here?" I responded with, "Not really son, why?" His response made me nearly spit out my beverage . . "Then why are all these people wearing their hunting coats and have their ears tucked in their hats??"
 
Cannot fault men for making a good living doing what they love, not even Utards.. :)

gethushin.com
zacgriffith.com
mtnops.com

etc. etc..
 

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