Utah - A special kind of crazy

Big Fin

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For the good folks of Utah, I apologize that these crazy politician threads often get directed at your state. I hold that Utah has the strangest mix of wonderful people, yet the craziest politicians, of any state I know of. Link below is more proof.


http://fox13now.com/2015/12/09/utah...deral-government-for-control-of-public-lands/

The hand picked panel of attorneys, surely not at all influenced by the $14 million of fees that it would take to make the case, have recommended the state of Utah sue the Federal Government for control over their lands. Surely these "home team" boys did not even think about what could be in it for them to have a long protracted lawsuit against big bad Uncle Sam.

I hope Utah goes forward with it. I hope it costs $14 BILLION. And when they are picking their teeth off the courtroom steps, I hope the state of Utah finally realizes that it is OK to question the sanity of an elected official.
 

Airborne

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As a native born utahn... I say to understand the politics of this state you have understand and fully comprehend the almost uncomprehending and slick way the local church can influence opinion. This is one of if not the only state whose church leaders could ask there people to cut the state off from the rest of the Union and "it WILL be done" would that happen? Doubt it, but if it was ordered.....it would most crrtinaly happen. So when an unelected body has influence that is so deep and controlling, I doubt any outsider could really understand, fact is most utahns don't even care to apply critical thinking to any issue, once they understand where the curch falls on the issue. Then the discussion is over. Does the church have any influence on this issue???? You bet it does, and you can obviously see witch way they fall on the issue. Because no one but Salt Lake City government will ever!!!!! Stray......
I'm positive my opinion will not offend any Utahans, no the members of the church who are counted among the very best people in the world and are also my friends, neighbors and family. How can I be so positive I will not offend you ask? Because that's exactly the way every member likes it.
 

ERSS

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As a native born utahn... I say to understand the politics of this state you have understand and fully comprehend the almost uncomprehending and slick way the local church can influence opinion. This is one of if not the only state whose church leaders could ask there people to cut the state off from the rest of the Union and "it WILL be done" would that happen? Doubt it, but if it was ordered.....it would most crrtinaly happen. So when an unelected body has influence that is so deep and controlling, I doubt any outsider could really understand, fact is most utahns don't even care to apply critical thinking to any issue, once they understand where the curch falls on the issue. Then the discussion is over. Does the church have any influence on this issue???? You bet it does, and you can obviously see witch way they fall on the issue. Because no one but Salt Lake City government will ever!!!!! Stray......
I'm positive my opinion will not offend any Utahans, no the members of the church who are counted among the very best people in the world and are also my friends, neighbors and family. How can I be so positive I will not offend you ask? Because that's exactly the way every member likes it.

Wow! Interesting.......

What is this church of which you speak :)
 

Big Foot

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The picture of a bunch of attorneys in room is like a bunch of hogs at the trough. $14M for a fruitless lawsuit which at best would screw the people of Utah. Huh?

I am surprised Rob Bishop was not mentioned in this article. I bet he is frothing at the mouth with this one.
 

UTK14

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Good hell. As a sportsman in Utah that hunts and fishes solely on public land, this is extremely disheartening. It's been out-of-control ridiculous for a while, and every time I think people are starting to understand the gravity of the situation, the State does something new in this ploy that really causes me to lose even more faith in the state politics(I'm at negative political faith levels right now).
 

SixPoint

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Ha!

I hope Utah goes forward with it. I hope it costs $14 BILLION. And when they are picking their teeth off the courtroom steps, I hope the state of Utah finally realizes that it is OK to question the sanity of an elected official.

This is great.Couldn't agree more.
 

Gevock

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I would be livid

If I were a Utah resident, I would be livid about this. That's money that could go to my daughter's school, fixing roads or enhancing public wildlife habitat. So much for conservative values in Utah. The law firm that gets this contract is the winner, and Utah residents are the losers.
 

authentichunter

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Randy,

Thank you for your work on behalf of our public lands. It is the reason why I am taking the very small step of joining the forum to discuss this issue and the recent news out of Utah.

Like Airborne, who is a native Utahn, I too am a lifelong resident of the Beehive State. I love Utah. I left twice for educational pursuits, but always returned to my home. Utah is a tremendous state with an unbelievable variety of landscapes and terrain. As you also know, Utah has some great hunting and a thriving hunting community. In fact, some might say that hunting in Utah is too popular.

Despite my love for Utah, I am keenly aware that Utah's biggest fault, its chief problem, is Utahns. This is exemplified by the clowns we continually elect to office. From Senator Mike Lee to Utah representative Mike Noel, Utah is mostly represented by clowns. I think many Utahn's would tell you there is no need to apologize for highlighting the craziness within our state. We know.

With an estimated price tag of $14 million (optimistically low), and Utah's perennial position at the bottom of the public education funding list, I have doubts that Utah will in fact file a lawsuit against the federal government. However, for reasons stated above, you never know? Regardless of the viability of an actual lawsuit to take control of public lands in Utah, I find the news out of Utah especially troubling.

As an undergraduate I worked in the Utah State Legislature as an intern to an influential state senator. During the legislative session then U.S. Congressman Chris Cannon addressed the state senate and the idea of transferring federal lands to the states was discussed. This was my introduction to the public lands issue in Utah. After Rep. Cannon closed his remarks I approached the senator I was interning for to discuss the issue. Although I did not share the senator's political ideology, I believed he was a sincere and reasonable man. I made the comment that I could not believe that Rep. Cannon had suggested transferring all the federal lands in Utah to the state. The senator chuckled and told me that transferring the lands was only the first step. He then explained his belief that there should be no public lands, except for a handful of national parks, and that "a man's paradise should be his backyard." The conversation made my stomach churn. Yet, complete physical illness did not set in until I learned that other senators shared the same or similar views, i.e. our current public lands should be sold.

The senator I interned for and the other senators who share his views are still in office today. In fact, one of them is a member of Utah's "Commission for the Stewardship of Public Lands" that voted to direct Utah's attorney general to file the lawsuit. As you have stated before, the end goal is not transferring federal lands to the states. The end goal is privatizing our public lands.

A few more points you may find interesting.

1. Rep. Keven Stratton, chair of the Commission for the Stewardship of Public Lands, is a longtime resident of Orem, Utah, which is located about fifty miles south of Provo. In 1966 Rep. Stratton's father leased some land from the City of Orem in order to build a public golf course. According to the terms of the lease the Stratton family would pay $537 per year to lease the land as long as the land was used for a public golf course. The lease had a term of 100 years. Two years ago Rep. Stratton sold land his family owned, and the rights to the land leased from the City of Orem, to a local business owner for tens of millions of dollars. The business owner is using the land as a lot for his home and the homes of several family members and close associates. Rep. Stratton was acting entirely within his rights when he sold the land. I simply find the story uniquely interesting when Rep. Stratton is prominently involved in Utah's attempt to seize control of federal lands.

2. Although I agree with Airborne that one cannot understand Utah's culture and its politics without understanding the influence of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, i.e. the "mormons," I disagree that the church is involved with this issue. However, I would agree that the culture within the church creates an unhealthy deference to authority, which manifests itself in Utah's political culture.
 
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elkantlers

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As a native born utahn... I say to understand the politics of this state you have understand and fully comprehend the almost uncomprehending and slick way the local church can influence opinion. This is one of if not the only state whose church leaders could ask there people to cut the state off from the rest of the Union and "it WILL be done" would that happen? Doubt it, but if it was ordered.....it would most crrtinaly happen. So when an unelected body has influence that is so deep and controlling, I doubt any outsider could really understand, fact is most utahns don't even care to apply critical thinking to any issue, once they understand where the curch falls on the issue. Then the discussion is over. Does the church have any influence on this issue???? You bet it does, and you can obviously see witch way they fall on the issue. Because no one but Salt Lake City government will ever!!!!! Stray......
I'm positive my opinion will not offend any Utahans, no the members of the church who are counted among the very best people in the world and are also my friends, neighbors and family. How can I be so positive I will not offend you ask? Because that's exactly the way every member likes it.

^^^^^
This has got to be the most ignorant post I have ever read on Hunttalk. The "church" has no dog in this fight and I can guarantee that none of the people pushing this have been instructed by anyone affiliated with the "church" to do this. Good grief.
 

Big Fin

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Authentichunter, that is a very insightful post. Thanks so much for joining and sharing that here.
 

BuzzH

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^^^^^
This has got to be the most ignorant post I have ever read on Hunttalk. The "church" has no dog in this fight and I can guarantee that none of the people pushing this have been instructed by anyone affiliated with the "church" to do this. Good grief.

I think that's bold talk...unless you personally know what goes on in every church in Utah.

The church would have nothing to gain from public lands being sold...rigggghhhhhttttt. They also wouldn't have any available cash if said land happened to hit the open market either....rigggghhhhtttt.

I wonder who owns deseret?:W:
 

Nameless Range

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Bad ideas come out of nearly every state in the west.

That said, every friend I've ever had who has lived in Utah or currently lives there has conveyed to me that it's undeniable that the fact that Utah is a mini-theocracy has a negative effect on it's politics. Which would figure.

I hope Utah loses its a$$ so badly that it's residents have to acknowledge the corruption involved here, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

TheDudeAbides

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I grew up and went to college in Utah.

Airborne, is right about the church pretty much controlling everything.

Even at the state college level.

BuzzH is right. Deseret is always looking for opportunities to expand and I would bet on the church buying all of the land the mineral and oil/gas companies don't, if it comes to pass.

I might need to start cashing in my Utah points in the next few years.
 
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smarandr

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One of the problems we have as LDS people is that much like hunters we're loathe to criticize each other and put too much blind trust in fellow members, even if one of us is as misguided as Bob Bishop and his cronies. In my accounting practice I see it a lot. A client and I will be discussing a particular business or investment decision and when they see the dubious look on my face they'll say something along the lines of, "Well, I go to church with this guy. It's okay." To which I reply, "That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard."

I agree with elkantlers, I don't think the LDS church has a dog in this fight, nor should they. However, until we as LDS people can grasp the idea that elected leaders who happen to be LDS don't always have our best interests at heart the bullchit that's going on in Utah will continue.
 

dukes_daddy

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Airborne, You should delete that rant about the LDS church. Neo-conservative politics are not just a Utah phenomenon.

Now if you and the other Utahn's on this forum are serious about working for change when do you want to meet?
 

Big Fin

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How the SLC Tribune is reporting the debate between those supporting and those opposing the funding of this lawsuit.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/3287281-155/utah-commission-votes-to-sue-feds


Bring it on, boys. Bring it on. Let's get this foolishness settled sooner rather than later. If Utah is willing to go on blind faith, following a large cadre of self-serving attorneys and land grabbers, then I guess the fringe operators leading the state into the morass will get what they deserve.

For those of you in Utah who see the folly in this effort, I wish a solution was at hand for your cause. Unfortunately, it appears that the idea of getting their mitts on these lands is a temptation greater than these folks can resist. Sorry for you, but the rest of the country is thankful that Utah will be the test case of a thumping that looks worse than when my Vikings played the Seahawks last Sunday.
 

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