USFWS Proposes Delisting Grizzlies

[LopeHunter]

What percentage of male sheep are allocated for harvest annually? Is it 5%? 10%?

Re Grizz: Factor in success rate and how many grizz tags will be issued a year in the U.S.? 20? 40 tops?

 

[Big Fin]

What percentage of male sheep are allocated for harvest annually? Is it 5%? 10%?

Re Grizz: Factor in success rate and how many grizz tags will be issued a year in the U.S.? 20? 40 tops?

If it was even as high as 20, I would be very surprised. When you read the allowed human-caused morality limits allowed under the plan and apply that percentage to the minimum population estimate, 20 would be very high and would be another lawsuit before any of those tags got issued.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

If it was even as high as 20, I would be very surprised. When you read the allowed human-caused morality limits allowed under the plan and apply that percentage to the minimum population estimate, 20 would be very high and would be another lawsuit before any of those tags got issued.

Agreed Fin! If the delisting doesn't get derailed and the states are allowed to take over, IMHO they need to tread very lightly with no more than about 5 tags max in each state per year to start with. I'd bet the first thing that will be stated by the huggers will be about how many wolves have been killed no matter that there were many more wolves than bears to start with.

 

[alwayshunting]

Wyoming already has a fee established and I can't find it right now, but it was in the thousands and I mean more that one or two!

I thought I remember reading something like $5000.

 

[airlocksniffer]

A word from our friends at CBD:

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2016/grizzly-bear-03-03-2016.html

 

[LopeHunter]

A word from our friends at CBD:

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2016/grizzly-bear-03-03-2016.html

They mention Sierra Nevadas as a place grizz can be placed. Why not Santa Monicas and along Malibu? Plenty of "food source" there to support free-ranging grizz. Central Park and Westchester County would be a nice place, too, and along the Potomac drainage. I just know that will be successful in showing how well grizz thrive in a wide variety of habitats as long as is plenty to eat.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

A word from our friends at CBD:

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2016/grizzly-bear-03-03-2016.html

What a bunch of BS! They now want them in the Grand Canyon area amongst other ridiculous places for cripes sakes because at one time they were from Canada to Mexico.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm not against recovering them in other places, but as this case proves recovery is so political it is a living parody of itself.

We could get them throughout the Rockies without ridiculous protections it would be a great thing.

The issue is politics.

 

[usmc1371]

We hunters need to police our own on this one. By that I mean while we are backing this and spreading the word we should be on the look out for the "kill them all/SSS" comments that do more damage than good for our cause.

 

[airlocksniffer]

We hunters need to police our own on this one. By that I mean while we are backing this and spreading the word we should be on the look out for the "kill them all/SSS" comments that do more damage than good for our cause.

Yep, here is a lovely quote by a member over at another hunting forum:

My biggest concern is not getting mauled or killed by one of those monsters when I'm elk hunting. I think or forefathers were right to wipe them out and I hope that option comes back into favor. In the mean time limited hunting is better than nothing.

It won't take many attitudes like this to set us all back on de-listing.

 

[beginnerhunter]

If there are tags available, perhaps they could find a way to highly incentivize people to only take mature boars?. I know it is too hard to tell the difference, to make it a legal requirement, but mature Boars ar one of the main dangers to grizzly bear cubs. I sure hope there is a hunt, but I sure hope they find a way to manage them for the benefit of the species.

I'd be interested to know the research available on this. If you could argue that killing mature boars offered a neutral/positive effect, that may help persuade the general public.

 

[MTGomer]

I thought I remember reading something like $5000.

Oh they're a treat.
I would be interested to hear what qualifications their California-based attorney has, that makes him or her more qualified to speak on the matter that masters degree holding wildlife biologist that have dedicated their lives to studying ecology and biology and grizzly bears.

Someone should also let them know that grizzlies are naturally repopulating the selway. In the Surveyor country, head of fish cr area on the MT-ID border, I have seen a Griz 2/3 times I've been in there. Once at Leo lake and once in cache creek. A few years ago a black bear hunter accidentally shot one in Kelly cr.
This area is geographically contiguous with the bitterroot range, with only hwy12 in between.


This was supposed to be a response to the link from the Eco extremist group.

 

[MTGomer]

They mention Sierra Nevadas as a place grizz can be placed. Why not Santa Monicas and along Malibu? Plenty of "food source" there to support free-ranging grizz. Central Park and Westchester County would be a nice place, too, and along the Potomac drainage. I just know that will be successful in showing how well grizz thrive in a wide variety of habitats as long as is plenty to eat.

It's said that California was home to more than probably anywhere else. Imagine the 'nonprofit' business opportunity there would be to start s 'donate now' group named 'Greater Tahoe Institute for Endangered Species Recovery and Social Acceptance'. I could make a fortune from the emotional Southern California stay at home wife.

 

[MT_elk]

I hope this will one day happen. I am not holding my breath. It will be tied up for years in the courts.

 

[Jwill]

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-R6-ES-2016-0042-0001

Go forth and comment.

 

[Randy11]

I'm hopeful someone can straighten me out, but what's the point in hunting them if the tag numbers are that low? It certainly isn't population management at that point. What's the biological reason for it?

This goes hand in hand with the social media thread, but I would have a hard time explaining how this would be anything other than what the non-hunting public perceives as 'trophy hunting'. I wonder if there's a tipping point where the cons don't outweigh the pros.

 

[teamhoyt]

I Was thinking the same thing randy. With that few tags it seems not much to fight about. By the time the tax payers get done reimbursing the legal fees to certain groups the price on those few bears is really high! Dont get me wrong I would love to shoot one someday. I Know grizzlies are different than most big game as far as numbers and reproduction/maturity goes. But I've seen 8 grizzlies on one mountain top at the same time, i find it hard to believe that the "few" bears in the area all choose to gather on that one mountain to eat a few moths

 

[MTGomer]

I'm hopeful someone can straighten me out, but what's the point in hunting them if the tag numbers are that low? It certainly isn't population management at that point. What's the biological reason for it?

This goes hand in hand with the social media thread, but I would have a hard time explaining how this would be anything other than what the non-hunting public perceives as 'trophy hunting'. I wonder if there's a tipping point where the cons don't outweigh the pros.

Mature male black rhinos that can't breed and are aggressive are hunted for the benefit of the species, particularly the benefit younger breeding age males. Same concept may apply here
Old Griz boars kill Cubs. Griz also die at a higher rate in the lower 48 from human conflict. Some of that is likely due to simple human population densities being higher here, but I don't think it's that far of a stretch to think that if there are a few less cub killers, and an instilled respect for humans, atleast to the point they don't come to a gunshot( there's a study that proves they do this) that it will be a benefit to bears. If done right, a hunt could increase bear population.

 

[Nameless Range]

Good question Randy11. I don't know the answer but wonder the same thing. Maybe, due to biological reasons, shooting a dozen bears between 3 states is a legit form of management. Maybe these initial harvest quotas will be a dipping of the toe to see how bears respond. I do think it is good to point out, as BigFin stated, that there may or may not be a season in a given year depending on mortality due to other factors. Hunting is only a tool.

I've stated on here that I wonder the same thing about moose. That's a low number of tags and moose don't need to be managed - yet I shot one. The more I read Buzz's posts I think a.similar argument could be made about killing bull elk in Montana too.

Personally, on the list of reasons why I hunt, management may not even be in the top five. If hunters focus solely on management for their defense of hunting to anti-hunters they will lose more often than not.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Good question Randy11. I don't know the answer but wonder the same thing. Maybe, due to biological reasons, shooting a dozen bears between 3 states is a legit form of management. Maybe these initial harvest quotas will be a dipping of the toe to see how bears respond. I do think it is good to point out, as BigFin stated, that there may or may not be a season in a given year depending on mortality due to other factors. Hunting is only a tool.

I've stated on here that I wonder the same thing about moose. That's a low number of tags and moose don't need to be managed - yet I shot one. The more I read Buzz's posts I think a.similar argument could be made about killing bull elk in Montana too.

Personally, on the list of reasons why I hunt, management may not even be in the top five. If hunters focus solely on management for their defense of hunting to anti-hunters they will lose more often than not.

Why would you say moose don't need to be managed and then follow that up with management isn't even in your top five. What might the higher reasons be for you?