dgibson
New member
After reading all of this one thing is clear to me: the various unions in the various places are all very different animals from one another. Fascinating.
UNIONS .. YEH ? or NEY ?
- Thread starter Moosie
- Start date
Marland, yes, but again not allowed to be processed that way. The doctor at work, he decided and held my employment over me as a threat against filing.
Paws, not bamboozeled, just told the way it is going to be. I am messed up, but not entirely. Just can't lift a ton of shit no more. Employers hold all of the keys. They don't want to help, they don't. They want to do things illegally and unethically, they do it. You have no say. If you have money and time it takes years and years to take them on. Even then you will probably lose.
Yes, a Union steward could have helped, in fact, the union president at the time told me he could help if my job was represented. Maybe I sound sour and it is because I am. 20 years lost in a moment. In my last class at school there was a UPS union steward attending, the "managers" gave him crap about it. I got pissed and went to his defense. If you are not in charge of things or don't like kissing ass, then a union is for you. No one will ever change my mind.
Paws, not bamboozeled, just told the way it is going to be. I am messed up, but not entirely. Just can't lift a ton of shit no more. Employers hold all of the keys. They don't want to help, they don't. They want to do things illegally and unethically, they do it. You have no say. If you have money and time it takes years and years to take them on. Even then you will probably lose.
Yes, a Union steward could have helped, in fact, the union president at the time told me he could help if my job was represented. Maybe I sound sour and it is because I am. 20 years lost in a moment. In my last class at school there was a UPS union steward attending, the "managers" gave him crap about it. I got pissed and went to his defense. If you are not in charge of things or don't like kissing ass, then a union is for you. No one will ever change my mind.
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pawclaws
Guest
You know KTC what you just said kind of solidifies my position regarding unions and employers as well. They are both made up of "greedy" people!! Twenty years ago I would have been hard pressed to find a Union President who would refuse to help a non-member employee in a function with union representation. Most of them would realize that following their support for your case that you would have signed up immediately. Today; "Show Me The Money!"
I guess my ire really isn't with Unions per sey just useless, freakin' greedy SOBs that lurk in the shadows reaching for your wallet.
Yukon Hunter
New member
Welll....
Clearly, from reading these posts, the Unions you gents are familiar with and the Union I represent are two completely different animals.
The Yukon Employees Union isn't out to make a buck- there is one paid employee (the President), and he gets exactly the same pay he would if he was working at his regular job. All the rest of us do it on a volunteer basis- some volunteering more hours than they put in at their position. The only time I can ever recall a non-Union member coming to the Union for assistance was last year, when an ex-Union Director, who had accepted a Management job, was suspended for what could be called "questionable" reasons, at best. The President took his case before the Commissioner, doing all the work in his spare time.
Solidarity is the name of the game. If you folks all supported American workers making American products, the jobs would not be shipped overseas. It's easy to point a finger and say "Hey, the Union Shops have priced themselves out of the marketplace" when it's not your job we're talking about. Tell me, how many of you would be willing to take a 90% pay cut?
Clearly, from reading these posts, the Unions you gents are familiar with and the Union I represent are two completely different animals.
The Yukon Employees Union isn't out to make a buck- there is one paid employee (the President), and he gets exactly the same pay he would if he was working at his regular job. All the rest of us do it on a volunteer basis- some volunteering more hours than they put in at their position. The only time I can ever recall a non-Union member coming to the Union for assistance was last year, when an ex-Union Director, who had accepted a Management job, was suspended for what could be called "questionable" reasons, at best. The President took his case before the Commissioner, doing all the work in his spare time.
Solidarity is the name of the game. If you folks all supported American workers making American products, the jobs would not be shipped overseas. It's easy to point a finger and say "Hey, the Union Shops have priced themselves out of the marketplace" when it's not your job we're talking about. Tell me, how many of you would be willing to take a 90% pay cut?
Whiskers
New member
YH, I agree with you. I should have stayed with the IBEW when I first signed up, instead of saving the dues, and working non-union. I would be full time retired by now.
Paws,
I summoned the union president for advice. He was willing to give it and help any way he could. Problem was, my job was not a represented job. I was not free loading. If I would have had the opportunity to pay dues and join I would have done it in a heart beat.
I like unions and they have their place. The stewards at work did the work free. I guess your like or dislike of them depends which side of the fence you are on. Managers and companies hate them and the grunts love them.
I summoned the union president for advice. He was willing to give it and help any way he could. Problem was, my job was not a represented job. I was not free loading. If I would have had the opportunity to pay dues and join I would have done it in a heart beat.
I like unions and they have their place. The stewards at work did the work free. I guess your like or dislike of them depends which side of the fence you are on. Managers and companies hate them and the grunts love them.
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pawclaws
Guest
OK, I got you!! I thought you were simply a non-member working in a represented shop. Actually I worked a couple of places where the union and management worked very well together but only because they had the same goals in mind. Survival under the threat of outsourcing the entire operation!
You are exactly right it has to do with objectives and that is why I use the term greed; actually selfishness would be a better word.
cjcj
New member
Well there sure are alot of differant "types" of unions, and it appears some are needed and some are not. My wife works for the US. POSTAL service and there are 3 differant unions go figure! and i don`t think they can even strike.
Whiskers
New member
Actually, most of the time all a UNION does is make the employee feel protected. Sometimes they make a difference when lower management screws up, but when upper management does they don't do much at all.
Yukon Hunter
New member
Whiskers-
Sort of a sweeping statement, and one that is not necessarily true. Up here, the people that run things aren't out of reach. I often see and speak with (read as annoy) the Premier (the equivalent of your Governor) in the grocery store. When you are only dealing with 30,000 people in the entire Yukon, it makes getting away from rabid Union types like me kinda tough. It also makes getting things done a little easier.
Sort of a sweeping statement, and one that is not necessarily true. Up here, the people that run things aren't out of reach. I often see and speak with (read as annoy) the Premier (the equivalent of your Governor) in the grocery store. When you are only dealing with 30,000 people in the entire Yukon, it makes getting away from rabid Union types like me kinda tough. It also makes getting things done a little easier.
Whiskers
New member
YH, I agree that UNIONs give us a better lifestyle. (That outa stir some flames.) But I have never see one go against top management and win, without the employee's sacrificing. If you read any of my past post, you will notice that I am pro-union (in most cases).
Yukon Hunter
New member
Hey, I'm not trying to flame you in any way- there are so few Unionists around here, we pretty much have to stick together (that's the whole point, isn't it?
What I'm saying is that, up here at least, we go head-to-head with top government officials all the time- hell, every day. Sometimes they win, sometimes we do. The advantage of having 10% of the entire population in one Union is that we carry a HUGE swat on election day- and they really can't afford to piss us off.
What I'm saying is that, up here at least, we go head-to-head with top government officials all the time- hell, every day. Sometimes they win, sometimes we do. The advantage of having 10% of the entire population in one Union is that we carry a HUGE swat on election day- and they really can't afford to piss us off.
dgibson
New member
That is certainly a distinct advantage, Yukon. Your entire territory has about the same population as my rinkydink town, and there's one twice its size just across the river. It sounds like you have a mecca of representation, in that there's no great population base to hide behind. The gubmint really is answerable to the people, at least on territory level.
Yukon, it sounds to me like you have a very good situation concerning your organization. I think a lot of us 'non-union" types would be receptive to an organization such as yours.
What I oppose are the unions that want me to support some lazy jerk who wants all the benefits, but complains about all the work he has to do, then loafs around much of his shift and I have to make up for it. There is one in particular that believes that the longer you work for a company, the more you should get paid and the less you should have to do. I do not belong to this union, but they are trying to make me join by making this a closed shop. After 15 years, I now am told that I will either have to pay the 3% union dues, or will have to find other employment. The reps are always telling me that I am freeloading off the union because they negotiate the contract for me. I would much rather negotiate for myself, but am not allowed to do so. If the union negotiates some slob to make $XX for getting by on the minumum work he can do, I have a lot of leverage to negotiate something better for myself for going above and beyond. My father always told me, "No one was ever hurt by doing a little more that expected."
From reading all the responses, I can see that there are good and bad unions as well as good and bad employers. I do believe that people have the ways and means to make working conditions and pay better without big union representation.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-12-2004 10:29: Message edited by: willib54 ]</font>
What I oppose are the unions that want me to support some lazy jerk who wants all the benefits, but complains about all the work he has to do, then loafs around much of his shift and I have to make up for it. There is one in particular that believes that the longer you work for a company, the more you should get paid and the less you should have to do. I do not belong to this union, but they are trying to make me join by making this a closed shop. After 15 years, I now am told that I will either have to pay the 3% union dues, or will have to find other employment. The reps are always telling me that I am freeloading off the union because they negotiate the contract for me. I would much rather negotiate for myself, but am not allowed to do so. If the union negotiates some slob to make $XX for getting by on the minumum work he can do, I have a lot of leverage to negotiate something better for myself for going above and beyond. My father always told me, "No one was ever hurt by doing a little more that expected."
From reading all the responses, I can see that there are good and bad unions as well as good and bad employers. I do believe that people have the ways and means to make working conditions and pay better without big union representation.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-12-2004 10:29: Message edited by: willib54 ]</font>
cjcj
New member
Well here is one union that i support 100%. The union that represents over 9,000. border patrol agents called president Bush`s, latest proposal on immigration "a slap in the face" to every border patrol agent that puts his/her life on the line every day to defend this country. I heard the head of the union "rip" the president on the radio yesterday and he was "livid" about what he called an act of "treason"
beardown
New member
Okay, did you guys know that the biggest union there is, is known as the Round Table.( I beleive thats what they called it ) It is made up of all the major corporations such as Intel, Microsoft, Exxon and Chevron. This is a union of corporate executives that have annual meetings on how they plan on screwing their employees! They discuss issues like wages, benifits and retirement plans. They also like to discuss how to keep unions out! So if you all want to live in dream land thinking that the harder you work the more you'll earn and if you think that you work for good guys that care about you its time to wake up!!! They all look for ways to get rid of the working man and to keep them from sticking together. They even go as far as producing videos on how to keep your employees from organizing! I have personally watched two of these videos and was absolutely appalled. If the coporate scum had it their way we all would be working for a dollar a day. But thanks to UNIONS we all have a chance to make a sorta livin. And all you non-union guys, if you think you are making a fair wage then you should kiss a union guys ass for getting you that wage!! No matter what you say,its the Unions that set the wages we enjoy now. Thats why the corporations have done everything they can to get the unions out!!
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Uh huh.
Yukon Hunter
New member
Hang on....let me get these pants off...
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pawclaws
Guest
And just who are the corporations?
Kind of like saying; "The government" isn't it? Boils down to you and me in the final analysis. Hell of a note isn't it? My car costs me too much because I demand it be safe, fuel efficient, has a long life, made in America, etc, etc, etc. Lots to think about here. You guys are doing an excellent job with this discussion!
les48
New member
i reject the idea that i should kiss any union guys ass for my wages!!! where were you born?? the unions have ripped off more members of their "brotherhoods" than any other group or organization. except of course our own legislators.any wage i get i earned, it wasn't negotiated for me by some lazy fatassed union representative. can we say jimmy hoffa????????
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