U.S. Vision: Development Within National Forests.

[Sytes]

Reuters:

U.S. unveils vision for more development in national forests

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue on Friday unveiled what he called a "blueprint" for enabling energy extraction, mining, grazing and logging in federal forests by speeding up environmental reviews and permitting.

mobile.reuters.com

I support forestry and mining of our public lands. Far too long Counties across America, such as Lincoln and Sanders Counties in NW MT have been economically hamstrung by environmental organizations.
If managed prudently, timber via thinning, etc it would be a great boost to flora and fauna. The Nature Conservancy has clearly shown this is a benefit for forested lands.

I support Helca mining moving forward with gainful employment for communities of Lincoln and Sanders, slapped far too long by environmental extremists.
As usual, exceptions are always present. Certain mining operations, such as Twin Metals, within reach of the MN Boundary Waters raise concern though again, If managed prudently...

Cattle grazing? I've not seen/been involved w/ ranchers... to understand USFS's adverse impact to grazing opportunities. Seems we've been pretty thin on what we charge for grazing on our land though again maybe others could shed light.

Same thing with O&G.
***But hey, wind farms and solar arrays are a vaulted public land value, to some...

In a memorandum to U.S. Forest Service Chief Vicki Christiansen, Perdue said more was needed to relieve burdensome regulations on industries and make federal forests and grasslands more productive.

"These lands are critical for the prosperity of rural communities, sustaining jobs and livelihoods in grazing, mining, oil and gas development, recreation and forestry," the letter said.

My forestry / timber question is how to ensure clear cutting is an action of the past and not one to rear its ugly head again.

Stab away. Supportive/opposing views on the pendulum swinging from early economic / employment cheers, to environmental organizations cheers, and now... hopefully some prudent use of USFS lands for our local, State, and Federal economies.

And, of course, we have the Center For Biological Diversity getting up in arms... Same ones that fought tooth and nail against State Management of wolves and now... grizzlies.

Environmental group Center for Biological Diversity said the letter "offers a dystopian vision of expanding mining, fracking, logging and grazing in national forests" that would increase pollution and carbon emissions, and harm wildlife.

Debate the topic.

 

[BuzzH]

Why do you think clear cutting should be a "thing of the past"? That's a perfect lack of understanding about how some forests function properly.

In at least a couple of the most common Forest Types in Montana, and the Interior West, its not only acceptable, but prudent to utilize clear cutting.

 

[fachries]

Why do you think clear cutting should be a "thing of the past"? That's a perfect lack of understanding about how some forests function properly.

In at least a couple of the most common Forest Types in Montana, and the Interior West, its not only acceptable, but prudent to utilize clear cutting.

+1

 

[Sytes]

Why do you think clear cutting should be a "thing of the past"? That's a perfect lack of understanding about how some forests function properly.

In at least a couple of the most common Forest Types in Montana, and the Interior West, its not only acceptable, but prudent to utilize clear cutting.

Why do I think old school clear cutting should be a thing of the past?
An example: One USFS article:

Changes in Water Quality Last More Than 30 Years After Clear Cutting – Research Highlights - US Forest Service Research & Development

After disturbances, healthy ecosystems are usually resilient enough to return to a pre-disturbance state; however, some disturbances are extreme enough to permanently shift an ecosystem, a phenomenon known as a regime shift. In a study of the effects of clear-cut logging, Forest Service scientists found surprising effects on water chemistry, effects that persisted almost 40 years after the experimental clearcut. In the clearcut watershed, dissolved nitrogen was higher, and the seasonal spike in nitrogen concentration had shifted from summer to winter. Nitrogen enters the forest via several pathways and, in the studied watershed, one of the most important sources was black locust. Black locust dominated the clearcut watershed for the first 10 years after the cut. The species, which is native to the southern Appalachians, has nitrogen-fixing bacteria in its roots. The bacteria can convert atmospheric nitrogen to a form that plants can use for growth. The scientists suggest that the long-term elevation of stream nitrogen concentration and export along with the changes in seasonality of nitrogen export and the relationship between concentration and discharge represent a functional regime shift initiated by forest disturbance. This regime shift was not predicted, nor would it have been understood without the long-term and large-scale experimentation possible in FS Experimental Forests.

 

[SAJ-99]

“If done prudently” usually means with significant regulation around the what, when, and how. Note the other statement calls for the removal of regulation. It’s a slippery slope. I’m not sure how you fix the conflict. Maybe someone has some examples of ideas tried that worked? What I do know is that the quest for the almighty dollar will favor businesses over the environment, so there needs to be thoughtful analysis.

 

[Trial153]

I have yet to see where this administration has put habitat or the Environment before profits, I have no confidence that this will be any different.

 

[BuzzH]

Why do I think old school clear cutting should be a thing of the past?
An example: One USFS article:

Changes in Water Quality Last More Than 30 Years After Clear Cutting – Research Highlights - US Forest Service Research & Development

The interior west isn't Appalachia...you're comparing nitrogen fixing hardwoods (angiosperms) with softwoods (gymnosperms). How a nitrogen fixing species impacts water quality from clear cutting forest types and stands that didn't evolve with stand replacing disturbance, will have much different impacts, from those that have. Fair too, is the fact that the interior west forest types not only have completely different species, they are much drier and require stand replacing disturbance to reproduce.

Like I said, in many of the most common forest types in the interior west, clear cutting is the correct and prudent way to manage those stands if you're going to log them.

 

[BigHornRam]

What do you think of this legislation, Buzz?

Senators to introduce bipartisan wildfire bill

Senators from California and Montana said Thursday that they plan to introduce a bipartisan bill that aims to protect communities from wildfires like the one that killed 85 people and destroyed much of the Northern California town of Paradise last year.

www.spokesman.com

 

[BigHornRam]

This group is speaking out against it using some facts and some bs.

Senator Feinstein on the Wrong Path Regarding Forests

At the Tahoe Summit this week in Lake Tahoe, California Senator Dianne Feinstein unveiled her plan to fight climate change, by pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into logging and vegetation removal projects on public-lands, and circumventing public participation in how National Forests are...

johnmuirproject.org

 

[BigHornRam]

I'm not worried we are going back to this kind of clear cutting around here.

A history of terraces

Back in 1964, a bulldozer climbed a steep hillside somewhere on the Bitterroot National Forest and lowered its blade.

ravallirepublic.com

 

[44hunter45]

Who get the profits and who gets the jobs? If the money and jobs go to foreign nationals and corporations, there is little economic gain for locals beyond gas, food, and alcohol sales.

I support extraction, but I want those jobs going to locals.

There are Good Neighbor projects running here and rather than locals working on them you see camper cities with out of state plates.

It's not just Chilean mining companies, it's hoedad swingers, too. Hal Herring has lived it and seen it. 80% of the jobs in my community are mill and forest jobs. But I see the invasion he writes about here.

The changing politics of woods work - High Country News

Cash-strapped agencies use private contractors to the detriment of local communities.

www.hcn.org

 

[mtmuley]

I'm not worried we are going back to this kind of clear cutting around here.

A history of terraces

Back in 1964, a bulldozer climbed a steep hillside somewhere on the Bitterroot National Forest and lowered its blade.

ravallirepublic.com

That was interesting. Thanks BHR. mtmuley

 

[ScottP]

Briefly:

1. I'm not sure the spirit of this is to boost local economies, but that is the sell. Especially in mineral extraction. Remember who has been sitting at the table pushing this.
2. We have to understand as a community that there is no one size fits all prescription for grazing and timber harvest across the west. You have to work with the ecology of the system. "Restoration" means different actions in different places. Not every forest is in need of small diameter thinning and prescribed fire.
3. How will this expedited process impact wildlife? Our increased human activities are already having negative impacts on so many species. How many of you that have hunted public land elk think we need more cattle in the high country?
4. Sound implementation requires strong leadership to effectively engage all the stakeholders of the public land resources. This is widely lacking, IMO.

I'm all for speeding up the environmental review process for renewable resource extraction, it's the non-renewable ones that will leave the longest lasting effect for future generations.

We have to remember, our USFS land base provides a significant amount of quality water resources and wildlife habitat. Those ecosystem services are so often overlooked because they aren't directly translated into jobs and $$.

 

[BigHornRam]

Courts are starting to rule in favor of forest management projects in the West, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Ninth Circuit Upholds Moose Creek Project to Improve Forest Health on Helena-Lewis and Clark National Forest | American Forest Resource Council

On April 7 a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit issued a decision upholding the Moose Creek Vegetation Management Project on the Helena-Lewis and Clark National Forest. The project restores 2,200 acres northeast of White Sulphur Springs, Montana that have been...

amforest.org

 

[Sytes]

The Nature Conservancy has been working to restore old clear-cuts via thinning the thick regen of the early clear cut swaths. It's helped w/ jobs as well as flora/fauna.
I hadn't seen this article before - found it an interesting overview of TNC.

Beyond the Timber Wars

At Washington’s Ellsworth Creek Preserve, TNC is protecting precious old-growth forest, restoring formerly clear-cut lands—and creating jobs.

www.nature.org

Would be great to see some of those mills in Lincoln County come back to life versus Canadian logging trucks routed to Columbia Falls, etc and dimensional lumber rolling across the border and loaded onto the trains... Wishful thinking. Would be great to see jobs return to one of the highest unemployed Counties in Montana...

One of the last holdouts - the attempt to keep operational and having to close up... The grim story of the environmental stranglehold on American jobs.

Eureka lumber mill closing - Libby, Montana

Libby Montana. Visitor information, news, links to area information and businesses.

www.libbymt.com

"I can offer my people more severance now than I could at any time in the last few years," he said. "This way, we can kind of go out on our own terms, kind of, rather than waiting until the last log is run through the sawmill."

Although competition from Canada and other lumber importers has taken a toll on business, Hurst contends that scarce timber sales on the Kootenai National Forest have impeded his ability to compete.

He said the U.S. Forest Service is "dysfunctional and leaderless," responding mostly to the threat of lawsuits from environmental groups rather than the needs of rural communities that have historically relied on national forest lands.

Kootenai National Forest Supervisor Bob Castaneda acknowledged the problem.

"They are entirely right. The ideal situation is for us to be able to provide a steady amount of timber," he said. "We can do our part on that, but if [timber sales are] held up by litigation, then it's out of our control and it's in the courts' hands."

 

[BigHornRam]

Montana Forest Action Plan should be complete by mid July from what I'm hearing and will be open for public comment then. Add your thoughts when the time comes if like.

Montana Forest Action Plan

Fires, Insects, and Disease Don't Stop at Fence Lines. Neither Should Our Management.

www.montanaforestactionplan.org

 

[azelkhntr]

I'm all in for active forest mgmt. via logging and thinning and I've personally witnessed over the years the benefits from that. Leaving forests naturally to themselves is fine but after 100 years of active fire suppression we and the wildlife have paid a very high price for not doing so. There are vehicles being used now that do not tear up the forest floor as they move along. Mining however is a different gig and open pits are the worst imo. I wish we did a much better job of recycling our waste metals. Did you know most of that was going to China for their benefit and profit? There is a proposed mine down here in SOAZ in the Santa Rita Mtns that recently had a very interesting ruling placed against them. Proposed open pit mine which started out small then oh; we want this ground too. Canadian extraction Co. wanting NFS land. They have the right to mine 900 surface acres as prior approval has been granted BUT; they are not permitted to dump the tailings onto 1800 acres of additional NFS land that they don't have rights to. I think that is a just ruling. You can mine but you have to ship the waste elsewhere at your own expense. I think that killed the project but appeals ad nauseum to follow.

 

[TheTone]

I’d be more in favor of thinning if it’s commercial and/or the thinnned trees weren’t just left to lay all over the place. A ton of regen around me gets thinned when it’s 5-15 years old and everything is just left to lay. It’s a total nightmare to navigate and takes seemingly forever for the thinnned trees to break down. I especially enjoy it when they post signs regarding fire danger on a freshly thinned section. Seems like planting less initially would have been much easier

 

[Gerald Martin]

Local mills shutting down and Canadian softwoods providing lumber to US markets is more of a result of economic realities rather than restrictions on timber harvests from federal lands. It doesn’t play as well with local constituencies as, “ Dang Librul Enviro Wackos are killing our jobs,” though.

Same thing with the “Log it or watch it burn” mantra.

I wish the solutions were as simple as the slogans.

 

[azelkhntr]

Local mills shutting down and Canadian softwoods providing lumber to US markets is more of a result of economic realities rather than restrictions on timber harvests from federal lands. It doesn’t play as well with local constituencies as, “ Dang Librul Enviro Wackos are killing our jobs,” though.

Same thing with the “Log it or watch it burn” mantra.

I wish the solutions were as simple as the slogans.

The great spotted owl fiasco destroyed the timber economies of the PNW and thus Americans were forced to buy cheaper Canadian wood products under NAFTA. That was a perfect example of enviro wacko policies being implemented to the detriment of small towns all across the PNW. Then after the damage was done it was opps! Our bad, sorry. Turns out the spotted owls cousin the barred owl preys on the spotted owl. Lives, economies and communities destroyed for nothing but phony wack job enviro science.