Thoughts on the anti-hunting movement

[RockinU]

I sucked at coyote and at wolf trapping and never got one...

Catching canids in a leg hold is damn hard, catching them in a snare is not. Calling them in is way more fun than either.

 

[mtmuley]

[QUOTE="wllm1313, post: 2882846, member: but damn if his relationship with wildlife and the environment is't as complicated and nuanced as everyone else on the forum. The small buckets of our political parties just don't hold the ocean of human experience.
[/QUOTE]
No kidding. Pretty good way to sum it up. mtmuley

 

[Gila]

No, form letters do not work. They are thrown away and only counted as 1 comment submitted X number of times. There is far more weight given to the individual phone call, letter or personal interaction,

Signed, a money-grubbing lobbyist who has worked professionally in conservation for 17 years.

If anyone here would know, it would be you.

 

[kmott]

People really need to try doing some research...a lot of gun control was pushed, and passed by Republicans. Read up on good ol' Uncle Ronnie Reagan, huge gun control advocate that passed gun control legislation while Governor. Something he carried on with during and after his Presidency. Nixon was also in favor of gun control...G.W. made the comment he would resign the AWB if it made it to his desk. Pretty sure he also quit the NRA.

Obama did exactly ZERO in regard to gun control, in fact, he signed legislation to allow firearms in National Parks and also to allow them on checked baggage for railroad transportation...expansion of gun rights.

We live in the information age, yet people refuse to let facts get in the way of their talking points and agenda...sad really.

only reason Obama didn't pass gun control is ,he was to busy screwing us over on healthcare when he had the support to get it done. once the dems lost congress, he no longer had the support and was impotent.

 

[kmott]

We need to do a better job screaming from the literal mountain top what PLT is, what it represents, and what it would cost us, what you say definitely demonstrates that we need to do a better job getting the message out. As for talking to local politicians, I can't really say, I know that my senators and congressmen are keenly aware of it as I have ample contact with them over the matter (especially Cruz), local, as in county and state, I'm not so sure, as unfortunately public lands aren't really a thing where I live, which has served to motivate me to make sure they are protected in the places they are...which means that I can't vote party lines. I have to take it all into consideration when considering who gets my vote, hunting, guns, lands...I have to think about it all, and that makes it hard to cast a vote in many races.

We've seen a poster say what's the point in public lands if we don't have guns to hunt with, well the counter to that is what good is my elk rifle if all the elk lands have been traded off to the wealthy and industry?

it's worth plenty. you just need to pander to someone wealthy.

lose your guns and public land will be irrelevant. you will be in the same position where you have to pander to the wealthy for permission, only now you will also be their slave or serf.

or to put it another way... you will be in the exact same position as the first European immigrants were in before they came to this continent.

so. it is irrelevant what good one might do on the public land front if they are also after your 2nd rights.

those who will strip the 2nd will soon after come for the 1st.

 

[kmott]

Catching canids in a leg hold is damn hard, catching them in a snare is not. Calling them in is way more fun than either.

yup! trapping is work.hunting is fun.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Well then you didn't comprehend it. Form letters work. You want to make it as easy as possible for people. A form letter also gets the message across better. You will get more correspondence going that way.

You overestimate the power of a form letter. Also, don’t be negative. You alienate people.

 

[BrentD]

You overestimate the power of a form letter. Also, don’t be negative. You alienate people.

Perhaps, it is more a matter of the quality of the personal letter you might write that determines whether a form letter is better or not. Having been on the receiving end out some letters from the public for a short time, I think a lot of letter writers who are particularly passionate about their positions tend to shoot themselves in the foot at times and would be better off with a well-thought-out form letter that supports their views but written by somebody else.

Course, it is the most passionate write their own Letters.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Trap and hunting bans in the west, are mostly ballot initiates and not driven by a particular party but rather special interest groups. Formal opposition is rarely made by the Dems or the Reps but by other special interest group. The fight is typical PETA/Human society etc versus RMEF, NRA, various hunting orgs, etc.

Example:
MT Trapping ban was put forth by Montanans for Trap-Free Public Lands

This is correct. The hound hunting bans, trapping bans, spring bear hunting bans are largely introduced and backed by groups such as PETA or HSUS. Now, if you were to say the people affiliated with these groups are largely far left on the political spectrum I would agree with you. However, that is irrelevant. These folks introduce the initiatives.

I don't care what the political affiliation is of the people voting on the issues. I am much more concerned with swaying their opinion on the issue. Worrying about the fact they are Democrats is pointless. Just because they are a Democrat doesn't mean they are guaranteed to vote one way or the other.

 

[Gila]

I have

You overestimate the power of a form letter. Also, don’t be negative. You alienate people.

I have been very positive. Rendering a different opinion isn't being negative. It isn't right for people to put words in someone elses mouth. That is being negative and causes controversy. Using form letters in addition to the other forms of communication can be valuable. Obviously the form letters should be personalized to highlight which attributes of an issue is most important to the sender. True, form letters are less effective with local, small town issues. With a large constituency the form letters become more valuable. I could care less who agrees or disagrees with me. If just one person thinks about what I post then I feel that I have accomplished something.

 

[one ate E grain]

Gila thank you for advocating for issues hunting, I'm grateful that you do so. I had an opportunity to discuss different forms of communication with a congressional staffer and the following is what I got from the conversation, make of it what you will.

In general the easiest and fastest things to do, weigh the least with our representatives. Anything you can simply click on and it gets sent, often gets counted along with any others who responded to that "ask" for participation as 1 response. That's how the Sierra Club can send in 50,000 emails and they only get counted as one, or maybe more correctly they get recognised as a form letter, not read, and tabulated as 50K form responses from the Sierra Club.

Peronalizing the message as you suggested can help to get your opinion counted as an individual if you send it to the representative's email on your own as long as you don't use the "click here to send" that often comes with formulated solicitations to contact your rep. Often those forms are designed to get your email which can allow further solicitations, maybe for $, or maybe to sell your email to other orgs, or to make you feel like an active participant or part of the group.

Using the congressman's contact method on their web site allows the congressman to assure themselves that you really are from their district (anyone else can go fly a kite) and your opine gets read and tabulated and a response sent saying thanks for contacting.

Writing a regular email and sending it to the representative after you somehow find a real email address to send it to often gets a real email reply cut and pasted together by a staffer with the representative's position on the issue.

Writing and printing and sending a letter via USPS gets a similar reply but counts heavier.

You can also call and politely state your position, you might also try to figure out which staffer handles the type of issue you are advocating. Often there is one person who is supposed to handle all things conservation.

You can also group together with a few like minded souls and try to make a personal appointment with said staffer when they are in the district.

You can also max out a campaign contribution limit in both the primaries and in the general for both yourself and your spouse and donate to a pac that is freindly to the congressman. That last one is how we are in the mess we are in.

 

[Gila]

You can also max out a campaign contribution limit in both the primaries and in the general for both yourself and your spouse and donate to a pac that is freindly to the congressman. That last one is how we are in the mess we are in.

Thank you for that excellent information. Brillant...

I no longer advocate. I did my rounds in the ring...Time for others to pick up the torch and run with it. ☺

About your last....I would rather donate to the local chapters by attending banquets and fund raiser events. The donations that hunting and fishing groups receive from local businesses are vital. All of those donations go along way to further the cause at the capitol. Just a common, working class guy here with meager means who likes to hunt and fish.....

 

[onpoint]

Thank you for that excellent information. Brillant...

I no longer advocate. I did my rounds in the ring...Time for others to pick up the torch and run with it. ☺

About your last....I would rather donate to the local chapters by attending banquets and fund raiser events. The donations that hunting and fishing groups receive from local businesses are vital. All of those donations go along way to further the cause at the capitol. Just a common, working class guy here with meager means who likes to hunt and fish.....

Yup, We're all free to make the choice, at any time, to let others pick up the torch cuz we "did our rounds in the ring". Glad these guys carried that torch - AND STILL DO - at their stages of life.

Most likely hear more Pro-Hunting wisdom - as well as see Pro-Hunting ACTION - than anti-hunting wheel spinning from these guys............................................................

True examples.................................................

 

[Gila]

I know a lot of people in this game of wildlife and hunting advocacy...all are "generals of an army of one". To a man/woman, they've always carried wayyyy more of the freight for all of us than they'll ever get credit for. Glad they didn't have your defeatist attitude and were not afraid they would get their butt's handed to them every once in a while. Showing up matters, not matter where "somewhere else" is.

I'm grateful for their commitment and I owe it to them to continue doing the same things they did...and have been for a long, long time.

I think it was Randy that said something to the effect of don't underestimate the influence one individual can make when dealing with these wildlife issues. Matter of fact, I think he's doing a series of stories on just that.

I do not have a defeatist attitide. Don't understand how you could come up with that. Unless you are representing others' interests you won't get very far.....that was the only point I was trying to make.

 

[lynlan1819]

If hunting in general wasn't in trouble,these threads would not exist.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

You haven't met my kids... They are brilliant, informed, committed, and they are fighters. Don't be too quick to give up on generations that we haven't seen yet, just do your part to plant the important seeds.

Amen. This whole thread makes me gasp at the uncertain reality. Living in such a beautiful and hunter-savvy state makes you forget about the rest of the country and it’s views on hunting; the laws that revolve solely for the advocates and not at all for the conservation of the species… terrifying. But, as long as we teach our youth to be outspoken, educated and responsible sportsman and women there is a glimmer of hope that hunting and trapping will live on in at least some part of every state…

 

[Pucky Freak]

Amen. This whole thread makes me gasp at the uncertain reality. Living in such a beautiful and hunter-savvy state makes you forget about the rest of the country and it’s views on hunting; the laws that revolve solely for the advocates and not at all for the conservation of the species… terrifying. But, as long as we teach our youth to be outspoken, educated and responsible sportsman and women there is a glimmer of hope that hunting and trapping will live on in at least some part of every state…

Welcome to the forum

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Welcome to the forum

Thanks man been reading for years and finally decided to join the conversation.

 

[lynlan1819]

I do not have a defeatist attitide. Don't understand how you could come up with that. Unless you are representing others' interests you won't get very far.....that was the only point I was trying to make.

Accusing other members of having defeatest attitudes,bickering between hunters,the hunters are their own worst enemy.
Post #5 is a perfect example also.

 

[Huntfly]

A post in another thread by @wllm1313 lamenting hunting opportunities that he's lost, while expressing confidence in keeping others got me thinking about where we are in protecting our hunting heritage, and while my logical side is prone to agree with his premise that the slippery slope isn't as big a concern as many make it out to be, another side of me has real concern.

I look at all CA has given up. I see the continued attacks on bear hunting, predator hunting, hound hunting, trapping, and high fence hunting. I see the train wreck that litigation can cause on the ESA. I see the hundreds and hundreds of social media responses wishing for death to a hunter and everyone who has ever met him because of a post with a picture of a legally harvested game animal that exists in plenty. I see more of the same cheering on posts calling 3 hunters injured by a bear in The Gravelly "karma". I see how much money organizations like HSUS and PETA are raising, and how mainstream they seem to be becoming. Despite western "crowding" I see hunter numbers in this country diminishing.

I see our opposition being very organized, cohesive, and passionate. These people do not believe that what we do is in fact conservation. They do not think that we have the best interest of animals in mind. They are convinced that the animals do not need our management, and it doesn't matter how many facts, figures, or how much science you show them, you can not change their minds. They are zealots.

What does the Hunt Talk community think? Are we doing enough to hold the ground we have? Will future generations enjoy the opportunities that we have, or is it just a matter of time before a modern society shifts so far from what we believe in that the things we treasure so much will be whittled away?

And to stop it we got to fight them tooth and nail. I back the NRA, life member, NHA, life member. I back anyone I can to protect our freedoms to hunt fish and bear arms. If we don't they will slip away.