Think Area 4 & 5 Type A is worth it

[TheDudeAbides]

I just received this today in the email.

March 25, 2019

Dear Mountain Goat Hunt Area 4 & 5 Type A Applicant,

You are being contacted to make sure you understand the circumstances associated with the new Type A mountain goat licenses offered in Hunt Areas 4 and 5. These licenses are meant to discourage the expansion of mountain goats into high priority bighorn sheep habitats in the Teton and Absaroka Mountain ranges. There are currently very few mountain goats in these areas, and it is the Department’s intent to use hunting pressure to ensure this continues to be the case. As a result, hunter success is expected to be very low. Additionally, due to the cost associated with these licenses, all hunters should be especially aware of this situation.

In summary;

• Type A mountain goat licenses are intended to keep goat populations low and prevent expansion in specific hunt areas.

• Very few mountain goats are found in Mountain Goat Hunt Areas 4 and 5 where Type A licenses will be issued.

• Mountain goats in these hunt areas are distributed in very remote steep mountainous terrain where access is difficult.

• Hunter success is expected to be very low in these hunt areas.

• Type A licenses are not restricted to the once-in-a-lifetime license issuance provision.

• Type 1 and 2 mountain goat licenses remain restricted to once-in-a-lifetime issuance.

• Applicants cannot apply for a Type 1 or 2 mountain goat license and a Type A mountain goat license in the same year. A choice must be made for one or the other in any given year.

• Drawing a Type A mountain goat license does not affect your opportunity to draw a Type 1 or Type 2 mountain goat license in the future.

• People who have drawn a Type 1 or Type 2 mountain goat license in the past can apply for a Type A mountain goat license.

Applicants not comfortable with this situation have until April 15, 2019 to either modify or withdraw their application. However, remember those that have previously drawn a Type 1 or 2 mountain goat license may not amend their application to apply for another Type 1 or 2 license.
If you choose to remain in the draw and receive a license, you should be aware that each applicant assumes an inherent risk when applying for a license to be used in the future, and that license fees are generally nonrefundable once a license has been issued. Wyoming Game & Fish Department regulations state refunds shall be denied in any circumstance where the licensee hunted on the license for the designated species as specified in Commission rules and regulations, including special archery seasons, during the year for which the license is issued.
Hopefully this information will be helpful with your decision regarding your Type A mountain goat application and good luck if you choose to remain in the draw!

 

[BigHornRam]

If I was a Wyoming resident I would be all over it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Looking at the area maps, I would find out where goats in unit 5 are thought to exist before putting in. I would certainly put in for unit 4.

 

[Flatrock]

Probably need to put in a lot of scouting time to find some animals. I would also assume that there will be lots of people hunting them. I also read somewhere that most outfitters aren't going to be doing guided trips on those tags. Not that they couldn't be successful but because they expected a lot of pressure and not the best experience for clients.

 

[icebreaker12]

Probably need to put in a lot of scouting time to find some animals. I would also assume that there will be lots of people hunting them. I also read somewhere that most outfitters aren't going to be doing guided trips on those tags. Not that they couldn't be successful but because they expected a lot of pressure and not the best experience for clients.

There is 48 proposed tags in area 4 and 16 proposed tags in area 5. So I'm not sure where all the pressure is coming from.

 

[madtom]

Depending how hard they knock the numbers back this year, the argument could be made that it's more worth it this year than it will be in future years.

 

[zpooch]

Which could also make the other goat area tags easier to draw as well....just a thought

 

[Flatrock]

There is 48 proposed tags in area 4 and 16 proposed tags in area 5. So I'm not sure where all the pressure is coming from.

Huh. I thought they were basically unlimited tag numbers? Apparently not... Carry on then.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Which could also make the other goat area tags easier to draw as well....just a thought

If a guy wants a mature, haired up Oct-Nov billy this is probably the best way to look at it IMO. It's a weird situation.

 

[BigHornRam]

Wyoming G&F counted 88 goats when they flew the Tetons. Any goats inside the Park would be off limits. With 48 potential tag holders, that would be a crowd IMO, but it is what it is. In area 5 it would be less crowded but you may very well end up hunting for goats that don't exist.

Wonder how many people end up applying for these hunts?

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I predict some social media icon is going to end up posting a ridiculous grip and grin with a baby goat. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[BuzzH]

I predict some social media icon is going to end up posting a ridiculous grip and grin with a baby goat. I hope I'm wrong.

Yep...Its bound to happen.

I'm not in favor of hunters doing the dirty work for the WGF Department and those that think goats are going to destroy bighorn sheep. If the sheep folk and WGF Department want us all to believe that goats and sheep cant occupy the same turf, and that one threatens the other, then let them pay for and remove the goats via extermination services.

These types of hunts, IMO, have the potential to do more harm than good. Lots of downside to these extermination seasons and not much upside from a hunter/conservation viewpoint.

I'm all about scientifically managed seasons, but "seasons" meant to totally eliminate a species...not so much.

I think proof of the cluster shag that happens with these type of seasons, was the addition of the new unlimited sheep area in Montana to eliminate that diseased herd near Lima a few years back. What a joke that turned out to be...people wounding sheep, fighting over territory, shooting any sheep they found, etc. etc.

 

[madtom]

If the sheep folk and WGF Department want us all to believe that goats and sheep cant occupy the same turf, and that one threatens the other, then let them pay for and remove the goats via extermination services.

Are we pretending that hunters have never screamed bloody murder when a state agency paid sharpshooters to remove animals? I'll agree that it's an interesting and (to me) not that enticing opportunity, but I think the backlash from hunters would be incredible if the state paid for their removal instead.

 

[BuzzH]

Are we pretending that hunters have never screamed bloody murder when a state agency paid sharpshooters to remove animals? I'll agree that it's an interesting and (to me) not that enticing opportunity, but I think the backlash from hunters would be incredible if the state paid for their removal instead.

Yeah, funny how hunters scream bloody murder on paying for animal removal...unless its a deer that's eating their shrubs, a bear in their fruit tree, or paying wildlife services to remove coyotes by the thousands, eagles, ravens, black bears, lions, etc. Not to mention paying for removal of grizzly bears and wolves.

But, when it comes to something like this, then the backlash...selective outrage.

 

[icebreaker12]

Yeah, funny how hunters scream bloody murder on paying for animal removal...unless its a deer that's eating their shrubs, a bear in their fruit tree, or paying wildlife services to remove coyotes by the thousands, eagles, ravens, black bears, lions, etc. Not to mention paying for removal of grizzly bears and wolves.

But, when it comes to something like this, then the backlash...selective outrage.

Not exactly a direct comparison there. Urban examples where the public couldn’t intervene, or species protected for various reasons. Or situations where a specific individual needs removing, something the public isn’t exactly capable of doing.

So yes selective outrage, because the public wants the opportunity at something like this. And there’s no reason not to let them try.

The fact is people were losing their mind when the Park service proposed removals of goats in GTNP without hunting.

Your feelings are not the same of the many that are extremely vocal about it. And you should at least understand that GF is hearing their constituents.

 

[BuzzH]

Not exactly a direct comparison there. Urban examples where the public couldn’t intervene, or species protected for various reasons. Or situations where a specific individual needs removing, something the public isn’t exactly capable of doing.

So yes selective outrage, because the public wants the opportunity at something like this. And there’s no reason not to let them try.

The fact is people were losing their mind when the Park service proposed removals of goats in GTNP without hunting.

Your feelings are not the same of the many that are extremely vocal about it. And you should at least understand that GF is hearing their constituents.

Wrong, there are many good reasons to not let the public wipe out a mountain goat population, the optics alone are damaging to the sport, damaging to the WGF, and damaging to the conservation ethics that hunters supposedly care about. Not my problem if all you see is the very small upside that a few people get to kill a goat. Even if said goat, is like the description by SnowyMountaineer.

Also, the goats in Grand Teton are getting whacked, its wayyy beyond a proposal and they aren't going to be removed with sport hunting. May as well make a couple more passes with the buckshot and helicopter and get the rest that may have wandered over the line.

Calling these type of population removal projects, hunting, is akin to calling McDonalds a fine dining experience.

 

[icebreaker12]

Wrong, there are many good reasons to not let the public wipe out a mountain goat population, the optics alone are damaging to the sport, damaging to the WGF, and damaging to the conservation ethics that hunters supposedly care about. Not my problem if all you see is the very small upside that a few people get to kill a goat. Even if said goat, is like the description by SnowyMountaineer.

Also, the goats in Grand Teton are getting whacked, its wayyy beyond a proposal and they aren't going to be removed with sport hunting. May as well make a couple more passes with the buckshot and helicopter and get the rest that may have wandered over the line.

Calling these type of population removal projects, hunting, is akin to calling McDonalds a fine dining experience.

Great, I'm glad you have so many ins with the NPS that you know what there response to public comment will be that closed on Feb. 15. You may be assuming that will be that response, which is a fair assumption. But, its still an assumption that I'm not willing to talk about in such black and white truths.

I suggest you show up to the commission meeting and speak to them about this in April.

 

[BuzzH]

Great, I'm glad you have so many ins with the NPS that you know what there response to public comment will be that closed on Feb. 15. You may be assuming that will be that response, which is a fair assumption. But, its still an assumption that I'm not willing to talk about in such black and white truths.

I suggest you show up to the commission meeting and speak to them about this in April.

I already have spoken to the commission about this issue and many others...have you?

 

[icebreaker12]

I already have spoken to the commission about this issue and many others...have you?

You bet. Don't forget, public comment is also open. You can provide your opinion there as well!

 

[BigHornRam]

Parks preferred method at this time is capture and translocate, and lethal control.

Parkplanning - Mountain Goat Management Plan EA

parkplanning.nps.gov