The Owyhee Initiative: A Quick Overview

[Ithaca 37]

http://www.owyheeinitiative.org/

Here's the rest of the story:

"We believe the conservationists participating in the OI are engaging in the wrong strategy at the worst possible time. Public land decisions in Congress are currently controlled by anti-federal land ideologues who believe that land is there to be used, not protected. Mike Crapo is from their camp. His "clients" are the cattlemen, the off-road vehicle users, and resource extractors, with only the slightest nod toward environmental concerns required. By participating in the OI, conservationists are letting Crapo and the cattlemen rule the Owyhees, while giving them the green stamp of approval. Not only will this seriously hurt the Owyhees, but it will undercut our ability to gain real, unsullied wilderness protection in the future.........."

Read this!!!

"According to the draft bill of the Owyhee Initiative, the plan would also:

Permit motorized use for grazing management in the wilderness area.
Maintain the current levels of grazing in the wilderness area, unless a rancher wishes voluntarily to move his cows out of the wilderness.
Authorize the Secretary of the Interior to trade federal land for wilderness grazing rights.
Permit the construction of new "improvements and facilities" in the wilderness, including "fences, line cabins, water wells, water lines, reservoirs, stock tanks, water haul sites, livestock trailing routes, etc."
Permit unspecified "management actions" in wilderness areas that are designed to "restore native vegetation communities."
Prohibit geographic reductions in wilderness grazing without the consent of the permittee......"

Don't sell out! Fight the Owyhee Initiative!!

 

[Muledeer4me]

I think the part that chaps Ithacas butt is where it states that wilderness should NOT BE used to slowly phase out grazing.

("1. Maintain the current levels of grazing in the wilderness area, unless a rancher wishes voluntarily to move his cows out of the wilderness." )


"Q: Is grazing permitted?
A: Yes. Grazing is permitted by the Wilderness Act in areas where permits existed prior to the area being designated as wilderness. According to the Congressional Grazing Guidelines, "[T]here shall be no curtailment of grazing in wilderness areas simply because an area is, or has been designated as wilderness, nor should wilderness designation be used… to slowly 'phase out' grazing…[T]he general rule of thumb on grazing management in wilderness should be that activities or facilities established prior to the date of an area's designation as wilderness should be allowed to remain in place and may be replaced when necessary" [Conference Report on S.2009 (House Report 96-1126)]."

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Q: Can livestock numbers be increased or decreased?
A: The Congressional grazing guidelines state: "Any adjustment in the numbers of livestock permitted to graze in wilderness areas should be made as a result of revisions in the normal grazing and land management planning… process, giving consideration to legal mandates, range condition, and the protection of the range resource from deterioration. It is anticipated that the numbers of livestock permitted to graze in wilderness would remain at the approximate levels existing at the time an area enters the wilderness system. If land management plans reveal conclusively that increased livestock numbers… could be made available with no adverse impact on wilderness values such as plant communities, primitive recreation, and wildlife population or habitat, some increases in AUM's (Animal Unit/Month) may be permissible. This is not to imply, however, that wilderness lends itself to livestock increases and construction of substantial new facilities that might be appropriate for intensive grazing management in non-wilderness areas."

 

[Ithaca 37]

Try to think rationally. Do you think cattle grazing is compatable with a wilderness area? Do you actually think people go to wilderness areas to see cattle grazing? How about the part where ranchers can use motorized vehicles in the wilderness areas? Do you think people go to wilderness areas to watch fatassed welfare ranchers driving ATVs around?

Take a look at this picture!!

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/book.htm

And here's some more info on welfare ranching. I'd like to see anyone with a brain read these articles and then try to defend welfare ranchers.

http://www.rangebiome.org/cowfree/

Moosie, Probably!

 

[Muledeer4me]

A QUICK OVERVIEW isnt always the best way to learn whats really happening.

2.("Permit the construction of new "improvements and facilities" in the wilderness, including "fences, line cabins, water wells, water lines, reservoirs, stock tanks, water haul sites, livestock trailing routes, etc." ")


"Q: Can existing range management developments be maintained?
A: Yes. The maintenance of supporting facilities, existing prior to its classification as wilderness (including fences, line cabins, water wells and lines, stock tanks, etc.), is permissible in wilderness.

Q: Can new range management projects be developed?
A: Yes. The construction of new improvements in wilderness is permissible if in accordance with those guidelines and management plans governing the area involved. However, the construction of new improvements should be primarily for the purpose of resource protection and the more effective management of these resources rather than to accommodate increased numbers of livestock (Congressional Grazing Guidelines, House Report 93-1126).


3.("Permit motorized use for grazing management in the wilderness area.")


Q: Can ranchers use motor vehicles to take hay, salt, and other feed to their livestock?
A: Where practical alternatives do not exist, maintenance or other activities may be accomplished through the occasional use of motorized equipment. The use of motorized equipment should be based on a rule of practical necessity and reasonableness. Motorized equipment need not be allowed for activities that can reasonably and practically be accomplished on horseback or foot. Motorized equipment uses will normally only be permitted to those portions of a wilderness area where they had occurred prior to the area's designation as wilderness or are established by prior agreement, and where such use would not have a significant adverse effect on the natural environment (Congressional Grazing Guidelines, House Report 96-1126)."


Don't sell out !!! Find out for yourself what this Initiative will or will not due before you jump on board with any group.

 

[Moosie]

Whats funny is the .org is PRO O.I. and the .com with everything else the same is Anti O.I.

Ithica, you going to the Meeting on Tuesday ?

 

[Moosie]

Find out for yourself what this Initiative will or will not due before you jump on board with any group.

Yes MAM..... That I'm doing. Notice I'm not onboard ANY ship right now

 

[JoseCuervo]

MD,

Why don't you explain to Moosie how Mule Deer will be helped with this Initiative....?

It is not obvious to me, and since he is the Dictator of DHI, his interest should be in Mule Deer being helped.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's more:

Owyhee Initiative

The Idaho Wildlife Federation and eight other organizations, representing conservationists, anglers and hunters are concerned with the provisions of the proposed Owyhee Initiative. The Owyhee Initiative has been a process closed to the public. Owyhee County Commissioners selected the participants and did not include users such as fishermen and women, hunters, wildlife observers, conservation groups who have been active in Owyhee County, and a host of other users of the public lands. Components of the initiative, such as a board of directors and a scientific review process, alienate the public from participation in the management of its public lands. Furthermore, current regulations provide sufficient means for all interested parties to have their concerns addressed without adding another layer of bureaucracy.

Releasing Wilderness Study Areas for multiple use management would lead to the degradation of the last of the undisturbed public land we have left in Owyhee County. Given the unsatisfactory level of management of multiple-use public lands in Owyhee County, the future of these lands is in question.

Another concern is the increase in wilderness legislation based on a quid pro quo basis rather than on merit. This trend does not bode well for future wilderness designation, or for the public´s interest.

The Owyhee Initiative needs some major changes or should be dropped if the flaws in the proposal are not resolved.

Cherie Barton, Idaho Wildlife Federation, Boise

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Opinion/story.asp?ID=65723

 

[Muledeer4me]

"This trend does not bode well for future wilderness designation, or for the public´s interest."

I think that statement right there sum's it up.
The greenies don't like it so far because it wont tie up enough land into the most restrictive designation ,and it left Jon Marvel out of the loop ,as it should have.



"It is not obvious to me, and since he is the Dictator of DHI, his interest should be in Mule Deer being helped."


Elkgunner,
You right as presedent of DHI his intrest should be in helping muledeer,and I have no doubt he will do a good job.
I just dont happen to believe that the only way to help muledeer is to tie up this area into wilderness,and kick the ranchers off.


But im still waiting to get more info. on what they did come up with and how all the side's feel about it. (discounting Jon Marvel ).

Im happy at this point that the groups involved have been able to work together and come up with this.


"Yes MAM..... That I'm doing. Notice I'm not onboard ANY ship right now"

Moosie,right on. If you were jumping on board any ship right now I would be asking for my membership money back.

 

[Ten Bears]

In simple terms, some grazing benefits deer populations, too much grazing and no grazing do not support the number of deer that some grazing does... As a hunter, I would have to side with the groups that support the use of grazing as a range management tool.

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD, "But im still waiting to get more info. on what they did come up with and how all the side's feel about it. (discounting Jon Marvel )."

It's not hard to get the OI. We've posted websites that you can read it on. Anyone with a brain can read it and see what the problems are.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Muledeer4me:




Elkgunner,

I just dont happen to believe that the only way to help muledeer is to tie up this area into wilderness,and kick the ranchers off.


But im still waiting to get more info. on what they did come up with and how all the side's feel about it. (discounting Jon Marvel ).

Im happy at this point that the groups involved have been able to work together and come up with this.

Please MD, please enlighten us with your method of helping the Mule Deer in Owyhee county, since you seem to know that it is not the overgrazing nor the roads.

 

[1_pointer]

Wilderness designation is not the most restrictive designation, making it a National Park would be more restrictive.

FWIW, one of the pictures in the 'Welfare Ranching' book is from Red Canyon Ranch, which is managed by TNC. This ranch has used grazing as a tool to be able to support a higher number of plant & animal species than adjacent land which has not been grazed for 40yrs. The picture is of a Sportsman's Access point on one of their waterways.

 

[Muledeer4me]

LOL you guys are killing me.

"It's not hard to get the OI. We've posted websites that you can read it on. Anyone with a brain can read it and see what the problems are."

Ithaca ,Really?
Please explain in more detail?
Don't you mean that, anyone that doesn't have there head up your butt doesn't have a right to post!!!
I wonder why there is a meeting at all if there weren't others that need to see the fine print,get more info.
OH thats right ------Ithaca told us how it should be and that should be enough to end all debate's ROFLMAO

Dont be getting your panties in wad so soon Ithaca ,Im sure we will be hearing more on the Owyhee Initiative.

1Pointer,you are right !!! It could of been worse.
This whole thing got rollong over Clinton wanting to make it a monument.

When the greenies didnt get that they started pushing for a mega wilderness area,they didnt get that so here we sit.

Like I have said all along ---it's not really about protection and having rule's in place ,those people that think like Jon Marvel (ithaca,elkgunner) have there agenda to shut down large areas to most use,end grazzing,logging,multipal use, blah blah blah.
If that wasnt there agenda why would they now be going against the org. they have preached to us about ?
Now we see in fighting going on between the environmental groups?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's what MD posted. "But im still waiting to get more info. on what they did come up with and how all the side's feel about it. (discounting Jon Marvel )."

The whole Initiative is easily available on a few websites---fine print and all! How much more does anyone need? All ya gotta do is read it and have enough brains to understand what you're reading.

Then she says, "I wonder why there is a meeting at all if there weren't others that need to see the fine print,get more info."

There isn't any more fine print. It's all on the websites. What more info could anyone need, unless they're waiting for somebody else to tell them how to think? Most of us don't need somebody to tell us how to think. The meeting is for people to make their comments on the OI. That's important because so many groups were shut out of the process to develop the OI. Might be a pretty interesting meeting! I might even show up, myself, and comment! Although I've already made my opinion known and will be doing more follow-up. I suspect so many people will have comments that there won't be time for them all. I doubt there will be very many birdbrains showing up to find out which way the wind is blowing before they form an opinion, , and wondering where the "fine print" is!

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Although I've already made my opinion known and will be doing more follow-up. I suspect so many people will have comments that there won't be time for them all. I doubt there will be very many birdbrains showing up to find out which way the wind is blowing before they form an opinion, , and wondering where the "fine print" is! "



ROFLMAO ,I made my opinion know long ago ,Ithaca. LOL and so have LOTS of other people ,isn't that what your bitching about right now????



("quote:form Me.
Find out for yourself what this Initiative will or will not due before you jump on board with any group." )

Moosie's ,reply,
Yes MAM..... That I'm doing. Notice I'm not onboard ANY ship right now ")

I wonder what that makes moosie as I didnt see him running straight for Ithacas butt to insert his head.


Your such a cranky old fart it's no wonder you weren't one of the ones invited in on the process !!!!

 

[Ten Bears]

Nice post MD4M.

I understand your point 1-P, even if others seems to want to ignore it.

There are more points of impact to consider here then just grazing and roads.

IT/EG, all livestock grazing on our public lands does not equate to OVERGRAZING.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Keep at um Debbie....Good finds!!!