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SAJ-99 said:
So we know your team.
Click to expand...
Seriously, if you honestly think the name Cheney is reasonable you only see what you want. Look who she learned from, good grief.

Tbh, I think all politicians are out for themselves. Division is what they want and most people fall for it because tribalism lets them get away with what they want. Until division is gone nothing will change.
 
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Nick87 said:
Not directed personally at you SAJ. But this is the only thing keeping all of us from winning. Growing so tired of it.
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Completely agree, but it's our fault. It isn't about ideas or policies or "values" (WTF that is), it's about standing behind the team. And that makes a third party candidate almost impossible. Cheney was viewed as as republican as they come. She voted with Trump over 90% of the time. Then she became anti-Trump. It's funny how the right turned against her, but it shows what the Republican party has become. Manchin had my attention for a hot minute, but he saw the reality of it all too. A candidate has to appeased the extremes to move through the system as structured.

@Bullbrl, all talk no data. Change my mind.
 
SAJ-99 said:
Completely agree, but it's our fault. It isn't about ideas or policies or "values" (WTF that is), it's about standing behind the team. And that makes a third party candidate almost impossible. Cheney was viewed as as republican as they come. She voted with Trump over 90% of the time. Then she became anti-Trump. It's funny how the right turned against her, but it shows what the Republican party has become. Manchin had my attention for a hot minute, but he saw the reality of it all too. A candidate has to appeased the extremes to move through the system as structured.

@Bullbrl, all talk no data. Change my mind.
Click to expand...
Change your mind about what?

Btw, no party tows the line like the Dems.
 
SAJ-99 said:
Completely agree, but it's our fault. It isn't about ideas or policies or "values" (WTF that is), it's about standing behind the team. And that makes a third party candidate almost impossible. Cheney was viewed as as republican as they come. She voted with Trump over 90% of the time. Then she became anti-Trump. It's funny how the right turned against her, but it shows what the Republican party has become. Manchin had my attention for a hot minute, but he saw the reality of it all too. A candidate has to appeased the extremes to move through the system as structured.

@Bullbrl, all talk no data. Change my mind.
Click to expand...
That's my point, time to change how it's structured.
 
SAJ-99 said:
Completely agree, but it's our fault. It isn't about ideas or policies or "values" (WTF that is), it's about standing behind the team. And that makes a third party candidate almost impossible. Cheney was viewed as as republican as they come. She voted with Trump over 90% of the time. Then she became anti-Trump. It's funny how the right turned against her, but it shows what the Republican party has become. Manchin had my attention for a hot minute, but he saw the reality of it all too. A candidate has to appeased the extremes to move through the system as structured.

@Bullbrl, all talk no data. Change my mind.
Click to expand...
Please don’t imply that the the Dems embody righteous superiority by default. Trump would not have been possible without Hillary being crammed down our throats. It was the perfect storm of arrogance.
 
noharleyyet said:
Please don’t imply that the the Dems embody righteous superiority by default. Trump would not have been possible without Hillary being crammed down our throats. It was the perfect storm of arrogance.
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You read a lot into that statement. I implied no such thing. Every candidate gets crammed down our throats. Hillary was a flawed candidate. By the same measure, Trump is a flawed candidate, Biden is a flawed candidate. The majority hates both of them to varying degrees. I'm not sure they is a single candidate to get us out of this mess. A split ticket? Not sure who the candidates would be and to get peoples attention you would have to convince them the VP is going to be delegated some power that the position doesn't normally have. Given the parties themselves are interested in keeping some level of relevance and the system is set up to keep them in place, changing it isn't easy.

Bullbrl said:
Btw, no party tows the line like the Dems.
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is something to be said for Pelosi keeping the house in line and not letting some far-left wack jobs control the agenda. Slightly different than what we see today.
 
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SAJ-99 said:
Yes, but there is something to be said for Pelosi keeping the house in line and not letting some far-left wack jobs control the agenda. Slightly different than what we see today.
Click to expand...
I can agree to a point but Pelosi, while I think she’s a corrupt drunk, only kept them in line when it suited her. You only have to look at “the squad” to see what I mean. She let them run loose and it wasn’t until they started aligning with Palestine that their voice has become tempered.
 
What’s the down ticket forecast? In my mind this is the least consequential presidential election in my lifetime - two aweful choices. The only way it becomes consequential is if split gov’t is not maintained in order to allow some check and balance. One of those old turds is going to win the presidency no matter what so where do my votes most matter in the down ticket races is my thought to try to get us through to the next election. On the bright side at least one of the geezers won’t be in the next election😂😂
 
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