Texas elk: Any on public land?

[Arrow Guru]

Google hasn't provided an answer. All I can find is outfitters selling elk hunts in Texas. I know that elk are considered "exotic" in Texas which means they would be pretty cheap to hunt of there are any on public lands. I also was trying to look to see if there are any public areas you can hunt Barbary.

 

[ImBillT]

Public land hunts only allow hunting the species specified for the specific property involved. The only LEGAL elk on public land in Texas is part of a public draw mule deer hunt. Tags/applicants is about is 2/2619. TX does not publish average number of bonus points, but you can bet your odds are at least five times worse than it looks like they are. Possibly ten times. The elk are not always there and when they are it’s in limited numbers. It’s not an elk hunt. It should be a tough but rewarding mule deer hunt if you can hack it. Success rates are usually 0-50%(only two slots exist. Each animal counts toward the success rate. If a single hunter shoots a mule deer and an elk, success would be 100% even though on one Hunter was successful, so 50% means only one animal was taken.). There are other draw hunts for Barbary Sheep and other exotics with similarly poor odds. There are a few walk-in public lands with exotics allowed if you purchase an APH permit. I believe they are archery only and have limited exotic animals. TX public land is rather miserable for big game unless you’re talking about one of the draw hunts, but the glory units in the West are both better and easier to draw. The APH public land is more something you’d only waste your time on if you lived nearby. You’re talking about a 2 month archery season followed by a 2.5 month rifle season with unlimited access and plenty of roads and trails. You have to get over near Louisiana to get public land that is more difficult to travers. It supposedly has decent WTs, but the rest of the state is pitiful for non-draw big game. The draw hunts are different. You would get 48-72hrs to hunt, spread over 3-4 days, on a piece of property that is only hunted by a handful of people per year spread over 1-3 hunt periods depending on the hunt. Pre-scouting is difficult because the hunts are either by assigned blind, or by compartment. For compartment hunts, the property is decided into compartments and assigned at random after the orientation. The boundaries of the compartments are not published. On my Javelina hunt at Black Gap WMA about 6yrs ago they handed us 8.5”x11” black and white maps with compartments drawn on with a computer. On my javelina hunt at Big Bend Ranch state Park this year we had to purchase a park map and they director drew our compartment onto our map with a sharpie. Primitive camping was allowed, but had to be done at designated camp sites. No back country camping allowed. At Black Gap we were left alone. At Big Bend we had to physically check in at the bunkhouse each night to confirm that we had made it back alive, then we could go back to our designated campsite. Animals, including mule deer, are required to come out field dressed, but otherwise whole. You can’t drive off of designated roads. I asked what happens if you shoot a mule deer back in a canyon and was told, “if you can’t drag it or use a game cart to get it out by yourself, then don’t shoot it there”. Non-hunting guests are generally not allowed unless they were part of your draw application and paid for a tag. “They just don’t have to use the tag if they don’t want to”. If you have a party of three and there are two tags left when you draw, you don’t draw. Group apps hurt because there are very few hunts with enough tags that it doesn’t seriously reduce draw odds.

TX public kinda stinks.

 

[ImBillT]

^^^^ takeaways from the above.
1. Shooting an animal not listed as allowed on that piece of land, even if it is exotic, is going to be considered poaching.
2. The only public land elk is not a good elk hunt and odds are terrible.
3. If you’re a TX resident and live near one of the areas available by APH it MIGHT be worth checking out(but not for elk) especially if you’re an archery hunter, or bird hunter.
4. If you don’t live near an APH area you’ll spend a lot on gas and hotels(most APH hunting doesn’t allow camping) compared to the price of real elk or deer tag in a western state.
5. You’ll never draw a public rifle deer hunt that isn’t from an assigned blind and/or management deer, but if you do it could be a nice hunt. It still won’t rival any other hunt in the world with equally low drawing odds.
6. Applications are fairly cheap.
7. The hunt price does not include your hunting license. If you’re going to have a TX hunting license anyway, it’s not bad, but if it’s your only hunt in TX, an out of state hunting license plus the hunt fee is pretty steep for what you’re getting.

 

[ImBillT]

https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/public_hunt_drawing/hunt-categories.phtml

 

[antlerradar]

ImBillT. Interesting information on Texas. I just worry that with Montana's similar seasons. (6 weeks of archery, 5+ weeks of general rifle plus shoulder seasons) if we are destined to become Texas in 20 or 30 years.

 

[Arrow Guru]

Thank foe all the info!! ImBillT!!! It seems that trying to kill some of the animals on my list on true public land might be a waste of time. I am not only looking at Texas butI am looking all over for public land opportunities. My personal feelings on the matter is that I'd rather go into public land on my own 6 times even if I don't tag out than pay a guide once. I have been out west on public land several times an I learn so much each time and I'm getting better. So I am searching ways to hunt different species. I have come to the conclusion that at 44 I arrived at the sheep hunting party way to late to have a legitimate chance. So, animals like goats, Aoudad, Ibex and other species will have to give me my mountain back country fix.

 

[ImBillT]

I wouldn’t give up on hunting “true” public land. Texas just isn’t the place to do it. Like I mentioned, there are walk-in areas with deer, and there are some nice deer taken on the draw hunts. If I didn’t live in Texas and already have a TX hunting license, I wouldn’t apply. If I lived near an APH area with deer allowed I would probably do it every year. Currently I only purchase an APH if I’m going to spend a week or two over the holidays near one, and so far the only things I’ve ever shot are a handful of ducks and one hog(even hogs and coyotes are only legal on certain properties). I’ve been applying for the draw hunts for 18 years and so far I’ve drawn javelina three times. The first time I got sick and couldn’t go. I’ve never managed to draw a deer or exotic hunt, so you can imagine what the average number of bonus points must be. One thing you can do to up your odds is to literally apply for everything. You can apply for every hunt in the catalogue if you want, so even though your odds are around 1/1000 for most hunts, you can apply for a few hundred hunts if you want to. Some of them even have decent(1/100) odds. This year on my javelina some of the other hunters seemed to draw at least SOMETHING almost every year. Because I don’t apply for doe hunts, guided hunts, blind only hunts, gator, turkey, hogs or archery my odds are a lot lower than for someone who applies for the whole catalogue. I finally opened my eyes to going out of state, and I’ll never look back. For public land hunting the western states are much better.

Don’t assume you’re too late for sheep/goats/moose. In bonus point states or random states your odds aren’t that much worse than they ever were. The fact is, not everyone who wants to is going to draw one of those tags. Preference points definitely insured that only people who got in on the ground floor will ever draw a tag until they change the system..which is inevitable. Bonus points just make people feel better about their odds, but in all reality, no one has enough points for good odds. When there is 1 tag per 1000 applicants, you could live 20 lifetimes and never draw. Some guy with fifty bonus points still doesn’t have great odds. Don’t apply in a preference point state. Apply everywhere else. You’ll never draw if you don’t apply. Somebody has to win, it might as well be you.

 

[ImBillT]

ImBillT. Interesting information on Texas. I just worry that with Montana's similar seasons. (6 weeks of archery, 5+ weeks of general rifle plus shoulder seasons) if we are destined to become Texas in 20 or 30 years.

Highly doubtful. On a percentage basis TX has very little public land. Furthermore, it’s highly under utilized for hunting. They could easily double or triple the number of tags on the drawn areas and not harm quality or populations. For example, one of the mule deer hunts is on a piece of property that is 310,000 acres and allows 12 mule deer hunters per year 72hrs to get a buck with no real scouting period, and no idea where you’ll be hunting until you arrive. Some nice deer come off the place, but it takes a lot of luck even though it’s some incredible habitat with almost zero hunting pressure. A lot of the walk-in area could have deer hunting, but don’t. By the time you condense it all down to the few that do, there’s a lot of pressure. Overall however, the long season haven’t harmed populations at all. There are more deer in TX than there ever have been. Whitetails are breeding like rabbits and expanding their range. Mule deer are expanding their range as well. There are a lot of old time ranchers that claim the elimination of the screw worm fly is what has caused the deer population to explode. In spite of TX being mostly private land, most of it gets hunted. The only places the season needs to be limited are walk-in deer hunting areas. If you’re worried Montana will become TX, take a look at the online APH map and you’ll immediately see why it won’t.

The TX public hunting system is broken, mostly because on a percentage basis there is very little demand. Outside of a few metropolitan areas, most people know someone or have some family that own at least a little land. Our tags come on our license, so if you get a hunting license you have every tag there is. From there you just get permission to hunt. The draw hunts don’t use a tag from your license, but the walk-in area leaves do.

I hunt quite a bit of private land free of charge. Knock on a door, walk up to a tractor, introduce yourself, be polite, show respect. Other places belong to friends, or friends of friends. There are some jerks out there, but not every landowner is a turd, almost all have been mistreated by trespassers, illegal dumpers, thieves, vandals and poachers though. Most are just scraping out a living by raising our food or fiber and frankly I’m surprised so many have allowed a stranger(myself) with a gun to spend time on their property.

 

[jabber]

ImBillT has a lot of good points, but the Texas draw hunts aren't quite a dire as you make out. My son and I have been drawn at Chaparral with an average of 7.5 points, exotics at Mason Mountain with 10.5 points, I was drawn for Private Land Pronghorn (only one tag/year) with 8 points. They also have a number of great youth hunts out there that my son drew a few of. I only apply for trophy type of hunts, but there are a number of different hunts, most in East Texas area that are not as hard to draw.

Now most of these type of hunts aren't something I would suggest for out of staters although I know there are a few on here that both apply and have been drawn. It is really cheap to apply as a NR or R as there is no difference and a NR has just as good of chance to draw as an R.

The last thing I will say is that most of the hunts also have the option to show up at the beginning of the hunt orientation and they usually have a walk-up drawing allowing a few additional people hunt. I have done that a few times at Chaparral, (never selected) but have a couple of friends that have been.

 

[ImBillT]

^^^ Chaparral has 1/159 odds if you have the average number of points. No one knows the average number, but with 1/159 odds you can figure there are A LOT of people who have applied every year since it opened and still haven’t been drawn.

Mason Mountain is no longer available for exotics. Most public exotic hunts in Texas exist to eliminate their presence in favor native fauna, so the quality of a lot of those hunts has been declining. Audad are going to be impossible to eliminate from Caprock Canyons and Palo Duro without a lot more hunters, so those are probably still pretty good.

Some hunts do have standby hunting available in case a drawn hunter is a no-show, and that gives better odds than the main drawing! Not all hunts allow stand-by hunters. Only a portion of the ones that allow a standby have a dedicated standby drawing. If they do, they draw at least one hunter even if all the drawn hunters show up. If they don’t, then they only draw if someone fails to show up.

Yes there are hunts with better odds than the mule deer hunts. Obviously I’ve been drawn for javelina three times. Your best bet is to apply for EVERY hunt you would like. As mentioned before, I only apply for mule deer, either sex whitetail, javelina, and the exotics with Audad. I forgot to mention before, but I also apply for pronghorn. Further, I only apply to hunts by compartment, not guided or blind only.

Still...I’d rather have ANY public draw tag in a western state than the best tag in TX other than the sheep tag. You’ll be more likely to harvest given more days, more land to hunt, better pre-scouting both in person and on the internet. All that said, a drawn compartment hunt in Texas is going to have you hunting the highest quality and least pressured deer in the state. Possibly the least pressured any where in the entire country.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t apply to TX IN ADDITION to somewhere else, but if you’re going one place, it’s the wrong place! If you’re looking for public elk, it’s SUPER THE WRONG PLACE. It wouldn’t be worth it to me if I was out of state. It’s $315 for an out of state hunting license in addition to the hunt fee. There are a lot of public deer tags at a lower price, with better odds, with more days of hunting, without rules like no back country camping and no fires outside a fire ring at a designated campsite, or having to get a deer back to your truck WHOLE. I apply, and hope I draw, but it’s not anything like other states. If you read the OP’s post, I don’t think TX public land is what he’s looking for. The nice thing, if there is one, is that you don’t have to have a license to apply, so applications are cheap.

 

[rendonbob]

I hunt public land and the Draws. I have killed numerous deer, hogs and exotic with bow and rifle. Is it easy, no, every hunt requires work. If ya want easy find a petting zoo to tie up the animal. Your question on ELK, is simply no, only draw. Axis are available on about 14 parcels and are taken annually with Bow and Gun. Sambra are challenging and exist is south Texas. Our party of 3 took one nilgi in archery season last year. Saw some but we watched folks walk all over and spook them. The issue on public land is well the public, most think walk around and kill something. I use a tent, not hotels, I haul my water, I cook for myself, but if you need a hotel, cannot take time to cook, then maybe HEB is your best bet. That meat is cheaper and readily available.

Last year was a bad season, I killed one doe in archery, one doe in rifle and one doe in muzzle season, all on public land. I see deer every time I am out. Last year, I have a video (from my sun glasses) of 30 deer crossing a trail in front of me by a state park out of range of my stick and string.