Teacher Concealed Carry Law in Idaho

[longbow51]

My dad was a teacher, at some point during his career I think he noticed that some kids really struggled at lunch time as it was kinda unregulated and a prime opportunity for bullying. He started kinda lunch club in his classroom and let gets go there instead and get help on homework or play on the computers... etc.

In retrospect I'm sure it was kinda a pain for him because he gave up his one opportunity to go run an errand and get lesson planning done.

Probably didn't stop a school shooting, but I bet that giving kids a bully free lunch space helped some kids.

Definitely not as news worthy as handing out glocks, certainly isn't going to galvanize a polarized electorate.

That's certainly worthy of respect. Some of the most difficult kids, though, according to my sharpshooter friend, have parents who fully embrace their bad behavior; it's always someone else's fault. And they have lawyers.

You father's experiences were a generation ago.

 

[Nick87]

My dad was a teacher, at some point during his career I think he noticed that some kids really struggled at lunch time as it was kinda unregulated and a prime opportunity for bullying. He started kinda lunch club in his classroom and let gets go there instead and get help on homework or play on the computers... etc.

In retrospect I'm sure it was kinda a pain for him because he gave up his one opportunity to go run an errand and get lesson planning done.

Probably didn't stop a school shooting, but I bet that giving kids a bully free lunch space helped some kids.

Definitely not as news worthy as handing out glocks, certainly isn't going to galvanize a polarized electorate.

Good on him. That's great story.

 

[44hunter45]

If you are armed in a school setting and something comes up it is automatically your responsibility. Or at least adds to the responsibility you already have for the children’s safety.

Where do you get that?

Hell, the police don't even have a mandate to act. Look at Uvalde, TX

 

[44hunter45]

@BackofBeyond

Either of you know if this only applies to K-12?

Colleges/universities too?

The Regents of the various institutions fought hard to be exempted from the Enhanced CCW carry permissions on college campuses.
They lost.

 

[SAJ-99]

Most Americans would be absolutely shocked at certain individual kids that we have to keep in schools. Public schools can turn NOBODY down.

You keep saying this. Please cite the Federal law that makes education a right? I always thought this was states issue.

 

[44hunter45]

There are already schools in Idaho and across the nation that have this. It is not a new thing.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how much clearer they can be when they say "no school employee shall be held civilly or criminally liable."


View attachment 314517

So funny that we won't hold a school employee liable for shooting someone, but we also have legislation pending this session which would create civil and criminal penalties
for librarians checking out a book to a student which Mom's For Liberty deems offensive.

I've watched these Karen's at school board meetings more than once. Screaming shrews.

 

[Derek44]

Where do you get that?

Hell, the police don't even have a mandate to act. Look at Uvalde, TX

That was worded wrong. My apologies. Gun ownership in general carries big responsibilities. Being a teacher involves big responsibilities. Would it not add to the teacher’s responsibilities if they chose to be armed amongst their students? Maybe not I suppose. Goes back to personal values and opinions. I myself would feel much added responsibility to arm myself in that situation. In fact, I feel my responsibilities are compounded just with my cc permit and choosing whether or not to carry in any situation. Others feel it’s their “right” to carry and shouldn’t come with any responsibility. Everyone has a different take on gun ownership. That being said, I am a very staunch supporter of the 2A and have participated in several groups and functions in my home state to advance and preserve that constitutional right but I personally believe in an educational institution setting with younger children, the 2A isn’t the fix all and other avenues should be explored first. If we all lived in a perfect world right?? The entire issue seems a dead horse argument to me and I honestly don’t think we will ever see meaningful change in any aspect of it.

 

[huntnpack]

You keep saying this. Please cite the Federal law that makes education a right? I always thought this was states issue.

Did he say it was federal? There are plenty things controlled at the state level that are homogenous across the country.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

have parents who fully embrace their bad behavior; it's always someone else's fault. And they have lawyers.

Those would be the bullies not the bullied, apples trees and all that.

 

[Derek44]

Idaho thinking:

These teachers are awful and are brainwashing our kids. Let’s fund the schools to the bare minimum

Also the teachers should have guns

How in the world did I miss this one??? This, folks, is probably the most spot on, underrated response to this entire thread!!

 

[gouch]

I wonder how effective armed teachers would be. School shooters generally are armed with an AR with multiple large capacity magazines, wearing body armor and are suicidal. The teachers would be armed with a small handgun, wearing work cloths and with the fear that they are about to die. It isn't quite the same as taking a knife to a gun fight but pretty close.

 

[SAJ-99]

Did he say it was federal? There are plenty things controlled at the state level that are homogenous across the country.

Post 57. Schooling is definitely not homogeneous across the country.

 

[huntnpack]

Those would be the bullies not the bullied, apples trees and all that.

In my experience its a two way street where the bullied are also bullies, and the guardians don't embrace either behavioral or environmental modification. If that makes sense.

 

[huntnpack]

Schooling is definitely not homogeneous across the country.

Aspects of it are.

 

[recon6036]

Running through the hallways with a gun when the Police arrive is a good way to get shot; even in small districts.
I just taught Active Assailant training for all teachers in the district. Now, I’m getting them “stop the bleed” training in March and outfitting every classroom with “stop the bleed” kits.
Great group of professionals for sure but I’m not sure any of them would want to carry a firearm or participate in the training that should accompany such a responsibility.
Firearm training, qualifications, threat assessment, disarming defense, etc.
I’m also not sure a Teacher would think about, or visualize, putting a bullet in a kids head. It’s certainly not what they signed up for.
When I proposed running a full-scale county wide exercise, the teachers in one school said they didn’t want to participate because it would be traumatizing…..I/we are doing it anyway, at the other schools.
It’s a shame we have to train Teachers on what to do in an Active Killer situation now-a-days, but we do…..maybe we should fix the nations lack of resources for mental health issues.

 

[SAJ-99]

Aspects of it are.

Like what, the chairs?
WA has a program to help kids that have demonstrated aggressive behaviors in the class room. Yes, my taxes are higher. Effectiveness I can’t comment on. But Idaho’s solution seems to be “arm the teachers”. Different approach for sure and it certainly doesn’t help the kid deal with the problem (which is probably from home). It certainly isn’t the most effective from anything other than cost. The most effective would be to have an armed police officer in every school. That person is trained and it eliminates the perceived soft target. It’s just expensive.

 

[huntnpack]

Like what, the chairs?
WA has a program to help kids that have demonstrated aggressive behaviors in the class room. Yes, my taxes are higher. Effectiveness I can’t comment on. But Idaho’s solution seems to be “arm the teachers”. Different approach for sure and it certainly doesn’t help the kid deal with the problem (which is probably from home). It certainly isn’t the most effective from anything other than cost. The most effective would be to have an armed police officer in every school. That person is trained and it eliminates the perceived soft target. It’s just expensive.

Why does either state have to pick one or the other? Are you saying Idaho doesn’t have parallel programs? As for expanding those services, I haven’t noticed a person in this thread that has mentioned being opposed to it.

 

[44hunter45]

I live in Idaho. Everyone I know with school-age children here supports this bill. As do I. “Gun-free zones” are stupid.

So you don't live in Latah County then? You know, the BLUE one?

 

[Desk Pop]

You keep saying this. Please cite the Federal law that makes education a right? I always thought this was states issue.

Individuals With Disabilities Act (I.D.E.A.): Free and Appropriate Public Education clause (FAPE) applies to special education students and guarantees them a free and appropriate education under federal law.

As far as school being considered a property right under the 14th amendment and requiring due process to take it away, see USSC Goss vs. Lopez 1975. Due process at this level is the same as regular court requiring a notice, hearing and impartial tribunal, but it is done through the local elected school board. Expulsions can last up to a year. Principals can suspend up to 10 days (and are required to do due process, just less formal.) School boards can suspend kids longer than 10 days, and can expel up to a year.

However, under IDEA, a student cannot be suspended more than 10 days (or expelled) if the behavior is a manifestation of his/her disability, as determined by the IEP team. If a kid has been labeled as ED (Emotionally Disturbed) or ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), it is virtually impossible for schools to successfully argue the behavior is not a manifestation of the disability at the manifest determination meeting.

When kids are unhinged and have behavior issues, they typically have IEPs. The positive is they get extra support. The negative is that it makes accountability difficult and makes it nearly impossible to keep them out of schools if they are truly a risk to others unless they are incarcerated.

It is difficult to know how many student school shooters had IDEA protections because this information is protected by FERPA. I would guess the vast majority did have IEP protections.

It is not as simple as just booting dangerous kids from school.

 

[WYelker]

WOW. Lets really look at this issue. First of all School Carry has been allowed in Utah for years. My own children attend a school district in WY where the staff are allowed to be armed(and there are some) under certain rules and training. But lets look at this through the eyes of a teacher.

As a teacher for over 20 years I have spent over 20,000 hours caring for students. Teaching them, challenging them, pushing them... I have been there as they cried, as they blew up in anger, been there as students were told about horrible things. I have watched students grow, mature, even pass away. At 7:30am I stand watching the parking lot on duty. At lunch I am standing duty in halls, in the cafeteria, maybe out on the play ground, etc. I do not teach for the pay, I do not teach for the winter break, definitely not for summer break as that means a second job... I teach because I can't imagine a better service to our future. I teach because I love learning...

As a private citizen, I am allowed to carry at the park, in the mall, I can carry at the restaurant, at the ball fields. I carry as I fill my tank, go grocery shopping, etc. Virtually every single place I go in my daily life I am permitted to carry. I do not carry because I am scared, I do not carry because I am blood thirsty. I carry because I like to be prepared. I carry not necessarily for my protection, but more so for the protection of my family, my friends and neighbors.

Why is it that as a private citizen I am permitted and trusted to carry every single day? Why is it that no one seems to have much issue with me carrying at the park, but I cant on the playground? Why is it that I can sit with you and your family at a restaurant in town but in the school cafeteria I am not trusted? As with most who carry, I dread the idea of ever needing to to use my side arm. I hate the very thought of ever seeing a situation where such force is needed. What I dread more is needing my side arm not having it... As a teacher I am forced to leave my side arm at home or at the very least locked in my vehicle. If the worst case scenario were ever to occur. If some derange lunatic were to ever enter the building, we are told to lock the doors and hide. Turn the lights off, be still and sit in quiet prayer, pray that when the door is breached, it is the police officer who are coming and not the gun man.

How is it that when I maybe the only barrier between a mass murderer and your children, I am not allowed the same basic self defense I have everywhere else? In every single school I have served there are people just like me. Not a lot, but some. In my former high school the librarian actually helped train the sheriffs department in tactical situations. She was a competitive shooter... The custodian is former military, a school crossing guard was a retired officer. In every educational setting I know there are some who I would trust in a heart beat.

As to some of the other comments... First of all, if a teacher is going to have a mental break down and shoot up a school, would you rather have no one at the school able to respond or would you rather the teacher next door down, have the ability to intervene and stop it? What would happen right now today at your school if a staff member went off the rails? As for students fighting or taking the gun from a teacher... How would they even know which teacher is carrying and which is not? Why would a student try and fight a teacher? If a student does attack a teacher, and said students is violent enough, wouldn't lethal force be justified? We could go on and on... The only way a person should be against carry by school staff is if they are against all carry by everyone.

PS as for the funding bs and the other ideas. I will shoot 2-3 times a week regardless of school policy. I will carry my side arm everywhere I feel necessary and can legally carry. I would gladly take any course, and pass and skill test the school requires. I would do so all on my own dime as I am already doing it...