Speed vs bloodshot

[diamond hitch]

When I first started reloading, my first response was faster was better. I was loading IMR 4831 for a bolt action. I experienced primer flattening and other less than desirable visuals as I danced above recommended powder levels. After a few years I changed to a BAR for faster recovery in the jungles. At first note, I was shocked that the gun kicked out the brass with flames still present on the ground. I inquired and was advised to try H4350 given the short distance to the gas port for ejection. Someplace in there I actually read the Hodgdon reloading book and learned about how changes in loads could make the groupings open up and tighten. That velocity was interesting but it didn't have a direct correlation to accuracy. I found by accident that a little slower bullet was more accurate and again by accident, caused less bloodshot.

About that time, my friend shot a nice meat buck with a 300 win mag again loaded to painful velocities. I helped him skin it out and found bloodshot not only between the muscles but in the muscles with a rib to rib shot. The meat loss was horrible. After discussion of my accidental discoveries, he slowed his rounds down, experimented with 220 gr bullets and also found better accuracy and bloodshot with slightly slower bullets.

My goal has always been more meat in the freezer vs trophy and I hunt in dense forest cover but occasionly I get a 300+ yd shot in a meadow.

I have brought this up with some and was informed bloodshot was irrelevant and they purposely shot through both shoulders so they had less to pack out with a quicker anchor. I guess I'm just not wired that way.
In times of higher velocity and lighter bullets, I'm likely not to change. I'm just sharing options. Your choice!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Bullet selection and shot placement have more to do with meat loss (blood shot or otherwise) than bullet speed in my opinion. That's one of several reasons I shoot copper bullets now (and why I used to always avoid frangible ballistic tips in my lead days).

 

[Don Fischer]

I think it's a combination of things that create bloodshot meat. Velocity and the bullet opening more rapidly. Generally caused by to light a bullet. Talking about cup and core bullet's here. Shoot a fragile bullet into a deer to get more velocity and the bullet doesn't maintain weight well it deliver's blood shot met. Up the bullet weight and lower the velocity and % of blood shot meat goes down.I'm real sure a fragile bullet can be shot slow enough not to do that!

Where you hunt with 300yds max your in prime country for using Max point blank range to zero your rifle. Basically zero your rifle 3" high at 100 yds and your pretty good to go with just a little hold over maybe at 300yds. For bullet's, shoot heavier bullet's. Mid weight to heavy for caliber. Two things cause penetration, weight and velocity! Up the weight and you lower the velocity, up the velocity and you risk blowing the bullet apart in game. Blow the bullet apart in the game and hit it wrong and you will get get bloodshot meat!

 

[2506gunslinger]

I too have gone full circle with fast cartridges. I now hunt mostly with a 308 for everything. In the modest 308, even soft lead bullets cause little meat loss. My loads are much less expensive now as well.

 

[seeth07]

I have actually gone full circle as well but I think in reverse than most. This is Midwest whitetail hunting with shots almost always under 200 yards. I started out hunting with the standard round nose lead Remington Core lokts. My family experimented with some high velocity bullets often with some kind of polymer tip to promote rapid expansion upon impact. Due to massive meat loss for any semi poor shot, back to the Core Lokts for pretty much everyone. Now that I'm older and more experienced shooting a rifle, i have actually gone back to the faster polymer tipped bullets for all my big game hunting with the idea that I just like the destruction these bullets do on an animal resulting in shorter blood trailers and less suffering on the animal. I'm pretty good and accurate putting almost every round somewhere thru the ribs and the meat loss on rib meat (and occasional some of the edges of front shoulder meat) just outweighs the benefit of a fast ethical kill. On a typical deer, its almost less than 5# of meat trimmings lost.

 

[p_ham]

I like my bullets like I like my women. Heavy and slow.

 

[mtmuley]

frangible ballistic tips i

You lumping all tipped lead bullets together, or talking specifically about the Noslers? mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

You lumping all tipped lead bullets together, or talking specifically about the Noslers? mtmuley

Actually had Hornady SST in mind when I was typing. Not lumping all lead bullets with plastic tips as that would include accubonds which is the opposite of the intent of my post - just the "exploding" ones.

 

[mtmuley]

Ballistic Tip isn't a generic description of tipped bullets. Nitpicking I guess. mtmuley

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Slow big bullets out of my 9.3 cause very little blood shot compared to my .270.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I don't believe my .270s bloodshot the meat particularly worse than my .308s have over the years. I have largely steered away from rapid expansion bullets in both, however.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ballistic Tip isn't a generic description of tipped bullets. Nitpicking I guess. mtmuley

I stand corrected. Does this mean I can correct every guy on hunttalk who mixes up caliber and cartridge?

 

[mtmuley]

I stand corrected. Does this mean I can correct every guy on hunttalk who mixes up caliber and cartridge?

Yep. mtmuley

 

[1_pointer]

I stand corrected. Does this mean I can correct every guy on hunttalk who mixes up caliber and cartridge?

No. But it means you can correct everyone who uses Charmin Ultra Soft instead of toilet paper when discussing toilet paper in a general sense.

 

[VikingsGuy]

No. But it means you can correct everyone who uses Charmin Ultra Soft instead of toilet paper when discussing toilet paper in a general sense.

Or Kleenex(r) for facial tissue, Xerox(r) for a photcopy or Google(r) it for an internet search . . . . . . . .

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yep. mtmuley

Thanks for the permission - this one has been driving me nuts for years!

P.S. Nosler's trademark counsel sends you his thanks

 

[std7mag]

Wow, this thread derailed faster than an Amtrak train!

I use almost exclusively the "frangible tipped bullets".
Have had great success with them, with only one instance of destroyed meat.
And that was hit in the shoulder.

While i still like and use the Nosler Ballistic Tip, i've tried and liked bullets that "come apart" also with good results. Namely the Berger Hunting VLD.

I've only seen evidence of a bullet exploding once. That the Hornady ELD line from a 7mm Rem Mag with fast twist barrel.
Bullet goes about 50 yards down range and explodes.. Never makes it to the target.
Rather spectacular when it happen!

 

[mtmuley]

I've only seen evidence of a bullet exploding once. That the Hornady ELD line from a 7mm Rem Mag with fast twist barrel.
Bullet goes about 50 yards down range and explodes.. Never makes it to the target.
Rather spectacular when it happen!

What grain bullet, what twist? mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

Wow, this thread derailed faster than an Amtrak train!

You've obviously skipped the covid, bundy and racial justice threads if this is "derailed"

 

[mtmuley]

You've obviously skipped the covid, bundy and racial justice threads if this is "derailed"

Skipping those not all bad. mtmuley