SFW on public lands?

[sweetnectar]

In case this bill makes it through, does FWP have to purchase land or can it be done by the DNRC or other government agency or who? I've heard some say FWP should not be in the land management business and stick to wildlife management and access points. To that I'm not sure how you manage wildlife unless someone is managing habitat. I don't follow the logic that you can just buy land and do nothing to manage it and expect it to take care of its self. Someone has to take good care of the land. It seems if you want FWP to take care of habitat we need to fund them to be able to do so. If you want private landowners to take care of the land then we need to leave it in private land and ensure there is incentive to take good care of it in terms of habitat. .......ok I'm done ranting.

 

[shoots-straight]

http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/reference/legislativeReports.html

Go here and download the file.

The department has to report every session to the legislative body and this download explains what the program is, and this is also the report to legislature.

 

[MTbowhunter84]

Joe, you would rather see non-res. hunters competing on accessable land than hunting private lands that 99% of the residents don't have access to? I would much rather see non-residents hunting private land that I can't/don't have access to than competing w/ me on the CMR or BLM, but that is just me.

I am not in favor of more permits for non-res., but I do think 10% is unreasonable, not "up to 10%", but an actual 10%.....what I am really in favor of is managing accessable lands so I do not have to listen to the incessant whinning about "outfitters have all the best hunting locked up"....and by the way, outfitters are leasing roughly 6.4 million acres now....hardly a dent in a state of 96 million acres.

Of course you would rather see non-res. hunters hunting private land. Im guessing you are an outfitter from the topics and your posts. What outfitter would want their potential clients hunting public ground.

 

[Point Creep]

Joe, you would rather see non-res. hunters competing on accessable land than hunting private lands that 99% of the residents don't have access to? I would much rather see non-residents hunting private land that I can't/don't have access to than competing w/ me on the CMR or BLM, but that is just me.

I am not in favor of more permits for non-res., but I do think 10% is unreasonable, not "up to 10%", but an actual 10%.....what I am really in favor of is managing accessable lands so I do not have to listen to the incessant whinning about "outfitters have all the best hunting locked up"....and by the way, outfitters are leasing roughly 6.4 million acres now....hardly a dent in a state of 96 million acres.

Outfitters do not have all the best hunting locked up. Some of the state WMAs are these very places.

Eric, I doubt you've ever had a client that would ever be up for "competeing" with most Montanans who are are avid hunters. Guys that'll plop down thousands of dollars to shoot an eastern MT deer or antelope are sure as hell not going lace up the boots, sleep in the cold, and go a few days hard without seeing some targets. The guys "competing" aren't booking hunts with anybody.

 

[Point Creep]

Why would this "sportsmen for wildlife" group want to restrict the FWP from buying property? Why would the be all for pushing hounds and baiting on our kick-ass liberal bear hunting seasons? And why would they want to "overcome" a group like MSA? Who is this keith Kubista guy - did he get dropped on his head as an infant?

 

[Eric Albus]

Wow, for the lack of respect accorded to folks who choose to use an outfitter. Some of the guys I take do hunt public land with me. They sleep on the cold hard ground, lace up their boots, saddle their pony, and are just as capable as any hunter I know....just because they actually have more money than time some of you look down your nose at them and want to place youself up on a pedestal, like these folks are beneath you?

warmer, you are welcome to hunt Montana anytime, anywhere you can, as long as you have a license.

Speaking of warmer, wish it were, -2 here and I have to make my 2:30 a.m. cow check.

 

[warmer]

Calving in cold weather sucks. Been there, done that. Good luck!

 

[Point Creep]

It looks like this SFW group is really looking out for those guys with more money than time - because those guys certainly won't be hunting a state WMA, and they are usually the guys shooting a bear with it's head in a bucket of donuts as well.

 

[Point Creep]

Eric- it's not a lack of respect. It's reality. Ill let you know the next time I run into the "bone collector" or bill jerdan.

 

[Point Creep]

Where the heck is Colorado Buck? Doubt ill be running into him either. I'm so jealous.

 

[Eric Albus]

greenhorn...i doubt you will either...but those guys(jordan/waddell) are both pretty good hunters, and very dedicated to what they do, are passionate about the sport, and do a lot of giving back... I could not do what they do for a living, I just do not have the patience or mental toughness to sit in a stand, day after day, all fall long...having to pass up shots because light wasn't good or the camera angle was bad...their job sucks....
The majority of the folks I take are good hunters, and are just as passionate about the sport as anyone on here. I also venture to say are just as good of hunters as anyone I know.

 

[Point Creep]

Eric, I'm sure you take some good guys. Don't expect you to admit it, but I'm sure you take your fair share of douchbags as well. You obviously get guys who have plenty of experience hunting. However, if you're going to throw that... "look out, these guys will now be competeing on public with the rest of you"... Not gonna happen ever.

Eric, the real question is: Do you think SFW is out for the greater good for the Montana sportsman - or more just looking out for "those guys with more money than time" and those that can cash their checks?

 

[Ben Lamb]

It looks like this SFW group is really looking out for those guys with more money than time - because those guys certainly won't be hunting a state WMA, and they are usually the guys shooting a bear with it's head in a bucket of donuts as well.

SFW banks on ignorance and apathy. They've had their mind made up and no amount of science or truth will change it.

Take SB 397 for example: This bill would force FWP to manage to numbers, rather than rely on the scientific data and biology needed to adequately manage all species. They include a hard number on wolves will which will lead to relisting and they ignore the vast majority of sportsmen's wishes when it comes to lion hunting.

They're a day late and a dollar short, but by god, they're hear to tell us all how to manage wildlife.

As for their support of bad legislation this session, let's take a look:

HB 312 - Test and Slaughter of elk
HB 404 - Gut Habitat Montana
HB 440 - Gut Habitat Montana
HB 33 - Kill all the predators
HB 31 - Ensured wolf relisting
SB 143 - Kill all the Bison
SB 237 - No Net Gain of Public Land

I've seen them take credit for HB 73, the agency wolf bill and they'll no doubt take credit for tabling SB 83, the bad sheep bill. Email blasts and a last second "me too" testimony don't do squat when it comes to working these bills. It takes hours of talking with individual legislators, tons of effort to get a bill tabled. They're not there.

They're on their computers, telling everyone how great other states are and how MT needs to follow that model.

Champ Edmunds, former(?) SFW board member on the Hunter Apprentice bill told the committee, "This works well in my home state of North Carolina." Like that's a reason to pass legislation.

Toby bridges moved here from the Midwest and since he was on some guided elk hunts in the past, he's now the lead biologist for this kabal of the uninformed and uneducated.

I have no problems with honest discussion or differences of opinion, but when every group that's busting their butts up at the Capitol gets called phony because they know the law and the way wildlife gets managed better than the carpetbaggers at SFW, then it's time to throw down.

I'll be at the hearing on SB 397. I hope everyone else shows up and reminds the commission that Utah doesn't control Montana's wildlife.

 

[Pierre]

Well said Ben. We'll all be there too.
Warmer, you can come hunt here OYO with just a license. You can have a really good time. Your success goes up with a good outfitter but they cost money. Public land outfitters offer quality full service hunts at reasonable prices and in the most beautiful parts of Montana. If you want a high dollar canned hunt for critters saved for big $ customers, go to the private land outfitters. Then ask them who controls populations by hunting antlerless critters?

 

[HSi-ESi]

Bills like this make me crazy. We're just going to eliminate (essentially) an effective program instead of trying to take the politics out of FWP's land acquisitions? The majority of issues have risen when a politician uses power to over-ride the system. I can see a bill to try and eliminate political interference in FWP land purchases, but crippling a successful program really is not the answer.

My first elk was on a newly established WMA (back in 1990). I was 14 at the time and didn't realize the full implications of where we were hunting. My Dad was the one that did the scouting, prep work and guiding me to the elk. Over the years, I've hit different WMA's with varying success. Understanding that habitat is key for sustaining our wildlife populations, I've been a proud RMEF member since I was 18. I hope this bill gets shot down.

On a little aside - I do want to address the slight thread drift that we're seeing once again (outfitter vs public hunter). I grew up in Eastern MT - and while there is public land to hunt on - we primarily hunted private land when I was a kid because my Dad didn't want to have us in the field with a bunch of hunters we didn't know. We spent time getting to know private landowners. We helped them brand, helped them cut hay if they needed in the summers - got to know them and call them friends. It's something that neighbors are supposed to do. We didn't do it to get permission to hunt, but that was a wonderful gift when we got invited to hunt. A couple of places had very strict restrictions - one I distinctly remember didn't want us to drag out the animal. So we packed out whatever we shot (deer or antelope). It was a small price to pay for having exclusive access.

My point is - when people complain about hunting access in Eastern MT - it's probably because you are showing up once a year and trying to get access. There's give and take at play here. How many of you went over and helped fight fire's during last summer near Ashland? I know many outfitters and private landowners that dropped what they were doing and spent many 24 hour days helping out their neighbors. The fires were crazy - and hit those folks very hard. Who do you think they'll give access to when it comes around again? It's not just money changing hands here. It's a close-knit community of folks.

Has anyone here offered to help forum member Eric Albus with calving (who's in the middle of that right now) or brand? Not saying that he'll let you hunt, but he might need some help anyway.

By the way. there's also great public ground over by Broadus. I took a 180" mule deer 4 years ago on public land and a 335" bull last year - also on public land.

 

[Eric Albus]

Hey, HSi.... Amen to your post, you hit it dead square....however, there are no good deer in SE Montana, and there is no public land in SE Mt., you must be mistaken.

Let me know who you are and I will buy the first round @ the Bison.

 

[Ben Lamb]

http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2013/03/the-hail-mary.html

More on SB 397

 

[Point Creep]

Eric, just curious to your answer to the question I asked...

Do you think SFW is out for the greater good for the Montana sportsman - or more just looking out for "those guys with more money than time" and those that can cash their checks?

I've no doubt some of the guys involved are good folks - but some certainly have different ideas of what hunting's all about in my opinion.

 

[Eric Albus]

Personally I do not know, it seems to me that fewer predators equals more elk/deer that would benefit joe average as much as joe cool....and fewer predators seems to be their theme.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Personally I do not know, it seems to me that fewer predators equals more elk/deer that would benefit joe average as much as joe cool....and fewer predators seems to be their theme.

If only the science backed that up.

SFW testified today for SB 397. That bill would delay grizz delisting and would put the future of wolf management in jeopardy.