jryoung
Well-known member
Damn, do you know what is going on with the herd? Why isn't AKDFG making this decision?
Seward's Folly Soul Searching
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Damn, do you know what is going on with the herd? Why isn't AKDFG making this decision?
My very limited understanding-
-The herd has been in pretty serious decline for a while. Caribou herds I guess are notorious for huge fluctuations. A lot of the people I talked to up there were big believers in climate change and attribute it to that. I think this is a pretty good synopsis-
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=671
-Non-subsistence harvest is a tiny percentage of the total harvest. I don't have the exact numbers, but I've heard 300-500 non subsistence kills a year (primarily bulls) against something like 10,000 subsistence kills (any caribou). This closure eliminates non subsistence harvest, and leaves subsistence the same. I have heard that a lot of locals believe the non-subsistence hunters hunt at a time and method that disturbs the migration. I have no idea if there's merit to that.
-AKFG already reduced non-subsistence bag limits from 2 either sex to 1 bull. Everyone I've talked to pretty strongly feels that the Federal closure is an overreach.
I don't know what to think. I really feel for everyone we dealt with that relies on that income every fall, but at the same time you've got to do what's best for the resource. I can't pretend to know if this is what's best for the resource.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Subsistence management is based on a 8 panel board consisting of 4 natives, and 4 fed reps (NPS, USFW, BLM and FS). The vote was 5/3 with only the Forest Service rep voting in favor of the closure. They are supposed to take ADFG's recommendations into account when voting. Subsistence communities and open harvest is found across the state, and in some cases it is allowed on state lands as well, but for the most part nearly all of it occurs on federal land, seasons and dates vary.
As part of Alaska becoming a state one stipulation included game management for subsistence/local/non-local/NR game harvest on federal lands. This is why some communities have opportunities to hunt in national parks, longer seasons, larger bag limits, etc. Its really an interesting situation. While most of us think we "need" the meat to make it through the winter, the reality is we can probably make due without, and our travels to the north are more for enjoyment than survival. I could buy a heck of a lot of burger for $2500-3000 (cost to fly up and back for one caribou.) When you don't have a job, and you only income is based on a few things you can sell/trade/and gov't assistance, as well as meat at the grocery store being 4-5x what it is here on the road system. That meat becomes quite important. The average family income in most bush communities is about $16,000 if I remember right, and about 25% of that is from the state dividend check... everything is expensive in the bush, about 3-5x what we pay for things here, however mail order Amazon has helped a bunch I'm sure.
The WACH was at an all time high of about 480,000 animals about 10-12 years ago, and has dropped down to about 220,000 +/-. Records that I've seen indicate that at one time the herd was as low as 80,000+/-. At that time reindeer (1920-1940s) were introduced to provide meat/industry for the locals. Some of those animals escaped and are part of the genetic makeup of the WACH today. Also another interesting bit of history there... If I recall they used to "herd" them all the way across the north/south side of the Brooks and back from Nome. Game management history in AK is pretty neat, like anywhere. Another tidbit, muskox were extinct in AK and reintroduced from Canada...
As far as to why the herds are declining, from what I understand, it has more to do with the herd being so big for so long. The lichen they feed on takes years to grow, they've eaten themselves out of house and home. This is likely also a reason why the migration has changed. I don't put much stock into the native anecdotal evidence of migration patters, non-locals harassing/killing animals in "known" migration corridors etc. Caribou are anything but pattern-able... We're talking one or maybe two generations of hunters who have seen caribou numbers anywhere near what they are even today. Much like the natives in the L48 with buffalo, historically the natives had huge drives and roundups and massive slaughters. Today they gun them down with AR-15s from the back of a snow-go, or shoot them in the head with a 22lr as they're swimming across the river. Its all about the meat, and rightly so, but to think they don't have a part in the problem/solution is foolhardy. What do you think they will remember, a bull or two getting shot by a "non-local" or a couple dozen of your friends gunned down at once in a river? I'm guessing they will "remember" both incedents, but I could be wrong.
Locals are allowed 5 a day I believe (don't think they can shoot cows now), with no annual limit. The last stats I read was that about 1,000 of the 10,000 inhabitants in the NW rely on subsistence caribou, and about 10-12,000 are shot each year. The numbers are hard to nail down because a lot of under reporting happens, many don't recognize government management. They feel that they can manage their "own" animals better than the gov't... we shall see.
They share and give away alot of that meat to others. I truly do not believe that a couple hundred caribou killed by non-locals would have any impact on the herd, nor will it increase opportunity for subsistence harvest. Nor will it have any effect on increasing the herd numbers. Much of the subsistence occurs after the general hunting season is over. What I do think they will see is a loss of a couple million dollars into their economy because of it... I could be completely wrong though.
Caribou are very cyclical, once they start to crash they tend to not stop until they hit the bottom. I've herd that the Malchatna herd crash may have been more related to over harvest of mature bulls than anything, but I think it was also linked to the amount of food available. I've heard that as few as 4 mature bulls were found per 100 cows. It was similar in size (about 320,000 IIRC) to the WAHC and crashed to about 70-80,000 and is now making a slow recovery, into the 110,000 range I believe now. Its open for subsistence and non-local harvest currently. it may open to NR at some point in the near future as well.
I have no issue with putting the resource first, but ADFG indicated that a major reduction was not warranted at this point. They have strict rules and milestones for limiting harvest, in a step down manner. Last year we saw a reduction of harvest limit by NR, the next step would be to eliminate NR, and reduce bag limits for non-locals, before finely going to the level currently enacted. They skipped a couple steps... We have one of the best caribou biologists in the world living in Kotzebue, and he's been studying the WACH for over 20 years. I can see closing it if it is truly needed, but ADFG didn't think it was need...
As part of Alaska becoming a state one stipulation included game management for subsistence/local/non-local/NR game harvest on federal lands. This is why some communities have opportunities to hunt in national parks, longer seasons, larger bag limits, etc. Its really an interesting situation. While most of us think we "need" the meat to make it through the winter, the reality is we can probably make due without, and our travels to the north are more for enjoyment than survival. I could buy a heck of a lot of burger for $2500-3000 (cost to fly up and back for one caribou.) When you don't have a job, and you only income is based on a few things you can sell/trade/and gov't assistance, as well as meat at the grocery store being 4-5x what it is here on the road system. That meat becomes quite important. The average family income in most bush communities is about $16,000 if I remember right, and about 25% of that is from the state dividend check... everything is expensive in the bush, about 3-5x what we pay for things here, however mail order Amazon has helped a bunch I'm sure.
The WACH was at an all time high of about 480,000 animals about 10-12 years ago, and has dropped down to about 220,000 +/-. Records that I've seen indicate that at one time the herd was as low as 80,000+/-. At that time reindeer (1920-1940s) were introduced to provide meat/industry for the locals. Some of those animals escaped and are part of the genetic makeup of the WACH today. Also another interesting bit of history there... If I recall they used to "herd" them all the way across the north/south side of the Brooks and back from Nome. Game management history in AK is pretty neat, like anywhere. Another tidbit, muskox were extinct in AK and reintroduced from Canada...
As far as to why the herds are declining, from what I understand, it has more to do with the herd being so big for so long. The lichen they feed on takes years to grow, they've eaten themselves out of house and home. This is likely also a reason why the migration has changed. I don't put much stock into the native anecdotal evidence of migration patters, non-locals harassing/killing animals in "known" migration corridors etc. Caribou are anything but pattern-able... We're talking one or maybe two generations of hunters who have seen caribou numbers anywhere near what they are even today. Much like the natives in the L48 with buffalo, historically the natives had huge drives and roundups and massive slaughters. Today they gun them down with AR-15s from the back of a snow-go, or shoot them in the head with a 22lr as they're swimming across the river. Its all about the meat, and rightly so, but to think they don't have a part in the problem/solution is foolhardy. What do you think they will remember, a bull or two getting shot by a "non-local" or a couple dozen of your friends gunned down at once in a river? I'm guessing they will "remember" both incedents, but I could be wrong.
Locals are allowed 5 a day I believe (don't think they can shoot cows now), with no annual limit. The last stats I read was that about 1,000 of the 10,000 inhabitants in the NW rely on subsistence caribou, and about 10-12,000 are shot each year. The numbers are hard to nail down because a lot of under reporting happens, many don't recognize government management. They feel that they can manage their "own" animals better than the gov't... we shall see.
They share and give away alot of that meat to others. I truly do not believe that a couple hundred caribou killed by non-locals would have any impact on the herd, nor will it increase opportunity for subsistence harvest. Nor will it have any effect on increasing the herd numbers. Much of the subsistence occurs after the general hunting season is over. What I do think they will see is a loss of a couple million dollars into their economy because of it... I could be completely wrong though.
Caribou are very cyclical, once they start to crash they tend to not stop until they hit the bottom. I've herd that the Malchatna herd crash may have been more related to over harvest of mature bulls than anything, but I think it was also linked to the amount of food available. I've heard that as few as 4 mature bulls were found per 100 cows. It was similar in size (about 320,000 IIRC) to the WAHC and crashed to about 70-80,000 and is now making a slow recovery, into the 110,000 range I believe now. Its open for subsistence and non-local harvest currently. it may open to NR at some point in the near future as well.
I have no issue with putting the resource first, but ADFG indicated that a major reduction was not warranted at this point. They have strict rules and milestones for limiting harvest, in a step down manner. Last year we saw a reduction of harvest limit by NR, the next step would be to eliminate NR, and reduce bag limits for non-locals, before finely going to the level currently enacted. They skipped a couple steps... We have one of the best caribou biologists in the world living in Kotzebue, and he's been studying the WACH for over 20 years. I can see closing it if it is truly needed, but ADFG didn't think it was need...
OverlordBear
Well-known member
Hey Randy anyway you could reload the pics for this hunt. It says they are all on photo bucket.
brownbear932008
Well-known member
I have no idea how I missed this thread way back when Randy. What an amazing hunt. I absolutely love Alaska.
